[Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

[Tom Morgan]

The short answer:
The 1CFL is listed for LED and CFL.  Electrically they are almost identical, the big difference is the ramping.  Simply put, if you put an incandescent bulb on a 1CFL it will electrically work; however, you will quickly say "Why is the dimming curve so weird?"  Instead of a linear ramp rate it will start at full, appear not to dim and then drop like a brick, then off.  It doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just is probably not what you are looking for.

Tom Morgan
Chief Technical Officer, Worthington Distribution
Vice President, Worthington University
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570-451-4700 ext 150
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From: hai-users-bounces at tssi.com [mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com] On Behalf Of Dan Barclay
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: hai-users at tssi.com
Subject: Re: [Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

OK, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on switching to HLC, but now I'm getting input that some of what I read in the HLC specs aren't really right.

I had intended to switch the dimmers out with 35A00-1's (now have incandescent bulbs) then at a later date change from incandescent to LED bulbs.  I'm told now that it won't work well, or won't work though spec sheet says it will.

The 35A00-3 is similarly listed good for on/off generic florescent lights, but I'm told it's not.

So, what's the scoop on this?  Anybody had these issues, or experience that contradicts it?

That is, using dimmable LED's with the 35A00-1 successfully?  Or know of problems with them?

Dan




From: hai-users-bounces at tssi.com [mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com] On Behalf Of Dan Barclay
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:09 PM
To: hai-users at tssi.com
Subject: Re: [Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

Thanks for the input Tom.

I've tried isolating but doing it alone was nearly impossible without help, even though I'm wired in a star (with sub-stars using the booster critters).  I only "chained" when more than one switch was in a box, and not always then.  Every line comes back to a punch block.  I was fairly anal about it.  I even made sure the total line length on an output is within their spec, and things worked great for a while.  The lack of any troubleshooting device is a big problem... you have to pull wires then go somewhere else in the house (usually downstairs for me) to see if something worked.  I have a storage scope but don't know what the signal is supposed to look like, in addition it is a pain to move around from box to box.    I went through a few circuits but had little luck finding one device hogging a line.  Like Eric I had one fail at local control (a dimmer that locked in at about 40% On), but just the one.  It's been on for a year or so now.  I may try again now that I have the HAI iPhone app, but I don't hold much hope.  Frustration and disappointment levels are high and I'm not sure I'm going to be happy even if I get most of them working now.

Mixing technologies isn't always the way to go, but I may do that for a while.  Dunno yet.  I keep looking at it and just procrastinating out of frustration.  At least with the OmniPro I do have that option to some extent.

It sounds like ZWave is out, the house is substantially larger than you mentioned.

One plus is that I had them wire the Romex as if they were going to put in standard switches.  I figured if I had trouble with the initial install I could put in a basket full of two dollar switches until I got my act together.  FWIW, I would always recommend doing that on any new installation.  I also ran conduit (a lot of it flex) to any wall that couldn't be reached from an attic space (yup, a lot of it).

Another frustrating point is that a Lutron rep tried to sell me on Radio RA, but it was before they had HAI communication.  They were big on scene/home lighting but didn't communicate anybody else at the time.  I require the lighting to communicate with HAI or it may as well not be automated so far as I'm concerned.  Their plus was that they had more granular control, but the ALC I experimented with was fine enough dimmer control for what I needed.  I note that you said "RA2" so I guess I've got some catching up to do on that.

It's too bad Lutron didn't have an HAI link at the time. It seems my timing is always just a bit off (let's not talk about markets or interest rates!).

Yes, your input helps.  I'm still not sure what I'm going to do (or when) but I appreciate your input.

Dan

From: hai-users-bounces at tssi.com<mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com> [mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com] On Behalf Of Tom Morgan
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 1:06 PM
To: hai-users at tssi.com<mailto:hai-users at tssi.com>
Subject: Re: [Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

Something to consider about ALC:
- One device can bring down a whole branch so it is not uncommon for an installer to think they have more devices that are defective then really are.  Unless you have the star hubs (most installs do not) that allow you to electrically isolate the data connections, troubleshooting can be difficult.  Removing power from a device is not enough and air gapping the device does not affect the communication connection.  You have to disconnect the date connections on the loop and test each device one at a time.  Yes, I know....a pain.

- In most cases fixing an ALC installation is less painful then a conversion.  The complexity of changing to a different technology is dependent on how things were wired.  When I teach ALC, I always coach dealers to have the Romex run for 3-ways even if the communication was going to be low voltage.  If that was not done then creating 3-ways is going to require retrofitting Romex which is potentially costly.



- You inquired about lighting technologies with HAI.  The four on the table would be HAI HLC (based on UPB), Leviton Vizia RF (Z-Wave), Centralite Azela (releasing this month based on ZigBee HA) and Lutron Radio Ra 2.

A quick pro/con

- HAI HLC -Pro: Our best selling solution with HAI controllers, programs from PCAccess, track record for reliability, lowest cost.  Con: UPB technology is tied to the powerline so it only provides lighting control.

- Leviton Vizia RF: Our top selling Z-Wave lighting system, programs via PC software, extremely flexible and uses programming on the 8's with HAI, allows integration of other Z-Wave products like locks.   Complete product line with fan control and electronic low voltage.  Con: Maximum square footage is 7,500 you have to set everything up in the Leviton software and then type the node numbers into PCAccess.

- Centralite Azela:  The first ZigBee HA devices that works with HAI (shipping in the next week or so), lighting fast communication, allows communication with other ZigBee HA devices like locks and thermostats (see our on-line class on 8/16), Zigbee RF is a proven networking technology.  Con: At this point it is a lighting control device, other pieces like multi-button keypads will follow making it a lighting system.  The industry needs more ZigBee HA Pro devices.

- Lutron Radio Ra2: A proven track record for reliability and acceptance among consumers and designers.  A complete product line including LED/CFL support.  Flexible keypad solutions.  Cons: The most expensive of the 4 systems, training required to integrate with HAI.

I hope that helps.
Tom Morgan
Chief Technical Officer, Worthington Distribution
Vice President, Worthington University
www.worthingtonu.com<http://www.worthingtonu.com/>
570-451-4700 ext 150
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