[Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

[Dan Barclay]

OK, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on switching to HLC, but now I'm
getting input that some of what I read in the HLC specs aren't really right.

 

I had intended to switch the dimmers out with 35A00-1's (now have
incandescent bulbs) then at a later date change from incandescent to LED
bulbs.  I'm told now that it won't work well, or won't work though spec
sheet says it will.

 

The 35A00-3 is similarly listed good for on/off generic florescent lights,
but I'm told it's not.

 

So, what's the scoop on this?  Anybody had these issues, or experience that
contradicts it?

 

That is, using dimmable LED's with the 35A00-1 successfully?  Or know of
problems with them?

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

From: hai-users-bounces at tssi.com [mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com] On
Behalf Of Dan Barclay
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:09 PM
To: hai-users at tssi.com
Subject: Re: [Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

 

Thanks for the input Tom.

 

I've tried isolating but doing it alone was nearly impossible without help,
even though I'm wired in a star (with sub-stars using the booster critters).
I only "chained" when more than one switch was in a box, and not always
then.  Every line comes back to a punch block.  I was fairly anal about it.
I even made sure the total line length on an output is within their spec,
and things worked great for a while.  The lack of any troubleshooting device
is a big problem. you have to pull wires then go somewhere else in the house
(usually downstairs for me) to see if something worked.  I have a storage
scope but don't know what the signal is supposed to look like, in addition
it is a pain to move around from box to box.    I went through a few
circuits but had little luck finding one device hogging a line.  Like Eric I
had one fail at local control (a dimmer that locked in at about 40% On), but
just the one.  It's been on for a year or so now.  I may try again now that
I have the HAI iPhone app, but I don't hold much hope.  Frustration and
disappointment levels are high and I'm not sure I'm going to be happy even
if I get most of them working now.

 

Mixing technologies isn't always the way to go, but I may do that for a
while.  Dunno yet.  I keep looking at it and just procrastinating out of
frustration.  At least with the OmniPro I do have that option to some
extent.

 

It sounds like ZWave is out, the house is substantially larger than you
mentioned.

 

One plus is that I had them wire the Romex as if they were going to put in
standard switches.  I figured if I had trouble with the initial install I
could put in a basket full of two dollar switches until I got my act
together.  FWIW, I would always recommend doing that on any new
installation.  I also ran conduit (a lot of it flex) to any wall that
couldn't be reached from an attic space (yup, a lot of it).

 

Another frustrating point is that a Lutron rep tried to sell me on Radio RA,
but it was before they had HAI communication.  They were big on scene/home
lighting but didn't communicate anybody else at the time.  I require the
lighting to communicate with HAI or it may as well not be automated so far
as I'm concerned.  Their plus was that they had more granular control, but
the ALC I experimented with was fine enough dimmer control for what I
needed.  I note that you said "RA2" so I guess I've got some catching up to
do on that.

 

It's too bad Lutron didn't have an HAI link at the time. It seems my timing
is always just a bit off (let's not talk about markets or interest rates!).

 

Yes, your input helps.  I'm still not sure what I'm going to do (or when)
but I appreciate your input.  

 

Dan

 

From: hai-users-bounces at tssi.com [mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Morgan
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 1:06 PM
To: hai-users at tssi.com
Subject: Re: [Hai-users] Replacing ALC switch with UPB

 

Something to consider about ALC:  

- One device can bring down a whole branch so it is not uncommon for an
installer to think they have more devices that are defective then really
are.  Unless you have the star hubs (most installs do not) that allow you to
electrically isolate the data connections, troubleshooting can be difficult.
Removing power from a device is not enough and air gapping the device does
not affect the communication connection.  You have to disconnect the date
connections on the loop and test each device one at a time.  Yes, I know..a
pain. 

 

- In most cases fixing an ALC installation is less painful then a
conversion.  The complexity of changing to a different technology is
dependent on how things were wired.  When I teach ALC, I always coach
dealers to have the Romex run for 3-ways even if the communication was going
to be low voltage.  If that was not done then creating 3-ways is going to
require retrofitting Romex which is potentially costly.

 

 

 

- You inquired about lighting technologies with HAI.  The four on the table
would be HAI HLC (based on UPB), Leviton Vizia RF (Z-Wave), Centralite Azela
(releasing this month based on ZigBee HA) and Lutron Radio Ra 2.

 

A quick pro/con

 

- HAI HLC -Pro: Our best selling solution with HAI controllers, programs
from PCAccess, track record for reliability, lowest cost.  Con: UPB
technology is tied to the powerline so it only provides lighting control.

 

- Leviton Vizia RF: Our top selling Z-Wave lighting system, programs via PC
software, extremely flexible and uses programming on the 8's with HAI,
allows integration of other Z-Wave products like locks.   Complete product
line with fan control and electronic low voltage.  Con: Maximum square
footage is 7,500 you have to set everything up in the Leviton software and
then type the node numbers into PCAccess.

 

- Centralite Azela:  The first ZigBee HA devices that works with HAI
(shipping in the next week or so), lighting fast communication, allows
communication with other ZigBee HA devices like locks and thermostats (see
our on-line class on 8/16), Zigbee RF is a proven networking technology.
Con: At this point it is a lighting control device, other pieces like
multi-button keypads will follow making it a lighting system.  The industry
needs more ZigBee HA Pro devices.

 

- Lutron Radio Ra2: A proven track record for reliability and acceptance
among consumers and designers.  A complete product line including LED/CFL
support.  Flexible keypad solutions.  Cons: The most expensive of the 4
systems, training required to integrate with HAI.

 

I hope that helps.

Tom Morgan 
Chief Technical Officer, Worthington Distribution 
Vice President, Worthington University
 <http://www.worthingtonu.com/> www.worthingtonu.com
570-451-4700 ext 150

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