[NU Sports] I think the thing everyone onthesportslistkeepsforgetting:

[Louie Vaccher]

I just want to interject a little history here. Dennis said:

If we can't achieve an overall 50-50 chance
> of beating Ohio State and Michigan instead of our traditional 10-90 
> (Michigan) and 2-98 (Ohio State), we don't deserve to be in the league 
> with them athletically.

No one in the Big Ten has a 50-50 shot of beating Michigan and Ohio State in 
football...except for Michigan and Ohio State, of course. If we used that as 
a criterion, the Big Ten would be the Big Two.

Ohio State's media guide does not include the Buckeyes' records against each 
opponent, but Michigan's does. Here are Michigan's all-time records against 
Big Ten opponents, with the exception of OSU:

Illinois: 65-21-2
Indiana: 50-9
Iowa: 40-10-4
MSU: 66-28-5
Minnesota: 68-24-3
NU: 52-14-2
Penn State: 10-3
Purdue: 40-12
Wisconsin: 48-11-1
Overall record: 439-132-17 (.768)

(NU's winning percentage against Michigan, by the way, is better than 
Indiana's, Iowa's and Wisconsin's.)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis W. Brandt" <tbng at comcast.net>
To: <nwu-sports at tssi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] I think the thing everyone 
onthesportslistkeepsforgetting:


> Sigh.  I'll try one more time and then drop the issue because I have 
> nothing new to add.  You are debating issues I never brought up.
>
>> I understand that there is comfort describing the world in black and 
>> white.
>
> This is your description, which is not reflective of anything I have said 
> on this subject.
>
>> You suggest that you either make winning football games a priority
>> or you are a loser.
>
> If winning is so unimportant, then why put a football/basketball team out 
> there?  The coaching staff is judged principally by wins.  If Cooper had 
> won more at OSU, he would still be there.  Attendance, matriculation of 
> new athletes (and ordinary students), and university sports income sports 
> is all predicated on one thing:  WINNING.  That's why we can't get butts 
> into the seats, and what fannies are found there are about as likely to be 
> rooting for the other team as NU.
>
>> Every school that has a football program makes some compromise between
>> athletics and academics.
>
> When did I ever state that athletics should rein supreme over academics? 
> I never said that we should take the next great, illiterate defensive end 
> and ignore his class-skipping.  I said clearly that NU could take a FEW 
> key athletes they might not otherwise take and shepherd them through the 
> academic system.  I'll add "with even more care than usual."  You could 
> make one heck of a student out of someone.
>
>> Those are the ones that go to the JUCO football factories.
>
> Where is it written that a JUCO is automatically disqualified from being a 
> good student?  When I mentioned elitism before, this is what I meant.
>>
>> I happen to have an ethical problem with promising a kid a scholarship 
>> and
>> not delivering an education.
>
> These are your words and not reflective of anything I have said.
>
>> If you are able to think outside the box, just for minute.
>
> The inside of the box is the recruiting status quo at NU.  I offered an 
> entirely new concept - for NU at least.
>
>>  Imagine if scholarships were tied to some formula of graduation rates 
>> and post graduate
>> employment (indicating that you actually learned something valuable).
>> Suddenly NU would jump to the front of the race by being able to offer 
>> more
>> scholarships than its BT competitors.  Winning football games would be
>> aligned with the institutional goals of graduating players with 
>> marketable
>> skills.  How would you feel at NU then?
>
> OK, that's out of the box.  Worth thinking about if you forget post-grad 
> employment.  A loss of a scholarship for each x% not graduating?  I'm for 
> it.  I can hear Jim Tressel screaming now.  I'm not sure Joe Paterno 
> wouldn't be for it.  He was the mastermind behind Proposition 40.  Coaches 
> would probably want some slack for those who leave school to turn pro. 
> That is different than spending four years and walking away with nothing.
>
> Final word:  NU never has made a genuine effort to field quality football 
> and men's basketball teams by comparison to other schools in the Big 10. 
> The basketball woes remain utterly incomprehensible when you consider 
> Duke, Stanford, Georgetown, etc.  Either do the job right or 1) drop the 
> sport, or 2) adopt an Ivy League concept.  If we can't achieve an overall 
> 50-50 chance of beating Ohio State and Michigan instead of our traditional 
> 10-90 (Michigan) and 2-98 (Ohio State), we don't deserve to be in the 
> league with them athletically.
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