[NU Sports] Interesting interview with Tulane sports law expert

Roy Lamberton rstetson at capps-assoc.com
Tue May 29 15:45:37 CDT 2007 

As far as I can tell, NU's student athletes go out into the world and do useful
work. I suspect that there are more teachers and sales reps among our
athlete-alums but I think that is probably based on an impression, not fact.

NU's graduation rate among its athletes is phenomenal, given that so many
regular kids drop out of college after realizing that they just can't handle the
academics. I can only point to my own family's experience with athletic vs
academics. The son who played football in college had the best GPA of all 3
boys.

I also suspect that the prevailing attitude at NU regarding the expectation to
graduate plays a significant role in our successes. I originally attended a
college where they told the freshmen to expect a large number of students to not
be there after a year. I was one of them.

After a few years, I wound up at NU, and quickly came to the realization that
you would really have to screw up at NU not to graduate. I think it’s a general
feeling of expectation - if you can get in, you are expected to graduate.

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
======== Go Cats -  Beat 'em All ===========
"You have a Republic Madam --
     If you can keep it" - Benjamin Franklin
============================================

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces at tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces at tssi.com] On Behalf Of Evan Bradley
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:10 PM
> To: 'nwu-sports at tssi.com' Sports List
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Interesting interview with Tulane 
> sports law expert
> 
> 
> I meant something like unsavory grading practices - I 
> definitely wasn't implying that it happens at NU or most 
> other places, just using an unlikely, scandalous example of a 
> school graduating unqualified student-athletes (again, I'm 
> NOT saying that this is happening).
> 
> I know some majors are more popular or rigorous than others, 
> and that's okay;  I also definitely think NU is doing a good 
> job all around - I just get nervous when it's suggested that 
> "we aren't winning because of academic standards, so let's 
> lower them," when it's clear that some accommodation is being 
> made in admissions already.
> 
> To be clear, I DO think it is fair to consider athletic 
> ability in admissions since it contributes to the University, 
> just like any other element of an applicant's résumé, but 
> like everything else, a balance must be struck (which I think 
> NU currently does).
> 
> 
> On 5/29/07, Jeff Beamsley <jeff.beamsley at hilgraeve.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "special accommodation".
> >
> > There are some majors that are more popular with NU 
> football players 
> > than others.
> >
> > The real question is can these people find a good job in 
> their area of 
> > study when they graduate?
> >
> > That isn't to say that NU should become a vocational school.  There 
> > should be a quantifiable difference in the quality of every 
> NU grad, 
> > if nothing else than to justify the cost.
> >
> > That said, if NU grads are getting jobs, then it really isn't 
> > important in a relative sense, how academically rigorous any "jock" 
> > major is.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nwu-sports-bounces at tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces at tssi.com] 
> > On Behalf Of Evan Bradley
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:01 PM
> > To: 'nwu-sports at tssi.com' Sports List
> > Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Interesting interview with Tulane 
> sports law expert
> >
> > I'm not naïve enough to think that it doesn't happen, I was just 
> > saying that I don't know the process.
> >
> > That said, I think NU is doing a good job, and graduation 
> is the best 
> > indicator of that, barring "special accomodation" in the academic 
> > arena, which I doubt happens at NU; I just wouldn't be in favor of 
> > lowering standards so far as to impact graduatioin rates and 
> > reputation.
> >
> >
> > On 5/29/07, Jeff Beamsley <jeff.beamsley at hilgraeve.com> wrote:
> > > Evan,
> > >
> > > Over the years, I think that we have established that 
> there are kids 
> > > going to NU on athletic scholarship with significantly lower test 
> > > scores and GPA than non-athletes who were refused 
> admission.  That 
> > > last numbers I remember reading suggest that a good 
> football player 
> > > with an 1100 SAT has a chance at NU.  A non-athletic 
> applicant has 
> > > to be somewhere north of 1300 to get a serious look.
> > >
> > > It is also probably no coincidence that a higher percentage of 
> > > football players, for example, share a specific major than the 
> > > general student population.
> > >
> > > However you choose to rationalize this, however, the key 
> measurement 
> > > of admissions success for athletes and non-athletes is 
> graduation.  
> > > If a high percentage of these kids graduate and are employable 
> > > (except for maybe English majors), both the admissions department 
> > > and the university have done their job.
> > >
> > > I don't know where to look for employment statistics.  The 
> > > graduation rate statistics are on the NCAA site.
> > >
> > > NU does a good job, and this is certainly something to be 
> proud of. 
> > > NU graduated 93% of all students in the most recent NCAA 
> report and 
> > > 90% of student-athletes.  Duke was a little better, Stanford a 
> > > little worse. Michigan, by comparison, graduated 87% of 
> all students 
> > > and only 78% of athletes.  OSU graduated 68% of its 
> students and 69% 
> > > of athletes.
> > >
> > > When you dig down into the numbers on the NCAA site for 
> graduations 
> > > by sport, basketball is weakest with an 88% Graduation Success 
> > > Rating (whatever that is).  Our minor sports and women's sports 
> > > graduate virtually everyone.
> > >
> > > So NU does appear to favor athletes both in admissions and 
> > > curriculum, but who cares if they all eventually graduate with a 
> > > useful degree? Bienen, the deans, and the Athletic 
> Department appear 
> > > to have struck a good balance between improving NU's athletic 
> > > competitiveness, keeping high academic standards, and 
> graduating the 
> > > kids that they bring in on scholarship.
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nwu-sports-bounces at tssi.com 
> > > [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces at tssi.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Evan Bradley
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:42 AM
> > > To: 'nwu-sports at tssi.com' Sports List
> > > Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Interesting interview with 
> Tulane sports law
> > > expert
> > >
> > > I'm not sure how admissions for athletes work currently, but if 
> > > we're not doing this already, I'm curious as to why we'd want to 
> > > start.
> > >
> > > I'm all for recruiting the best athletes, but if a 
> university admits 
> > > student-athletes who don't match the academic profile of 
> the rest of 
> > > the student population, it's:
> > >
> > > a) setting these students up for failure in the 
> classroom, thereby 
> > > lowering graduation rates and/or increasing the number of 
> athletes 
> > > who leave early to go pro
> > >
> > > b) risking the reputation of a school where education is 
> supposed to 
> > > be priority #1 by emulating some of the "lesser" schools 
> lambasted 
> > > on this list for their stereotypical "dumb jock" rosters.
> > >
> > > The attitude at NU seems to have been that we'll win 
> while keeping 
> > > our ideals, resulting in athletes that are known for 
> being "smart," 
> > > and I think most fans are proud of that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/28/07, Jim Bendat <thehaze at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > I'm not so sure that we don't already do that.  When my 
> daughter 
> > > > began
> > >
> > > > her freshman year at NU in the fall of 2005, there were 
> a number 
> > > > of athletes in her dorm who told her that they wouldn't 
> have made 
> > > > it to NU were it not for their sports abilities.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MHRJGScott at aol.com wrote:
> > > > > I noted the use of "special admits" at Tulane, why 
> don't we have 
> > > > > something like that?
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> _http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-31/118033
> > > > > 36
> > > > > 69
> > > > > 175280.xml
> > > > > &coll=1_
> > > > > 
> (http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-31/11803336
> > > > > 69
> > > > > 175280.xml&coll=1)
> > > > >
> 
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