From bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 04:54:17 2004
From: bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Wed Dec  1 04:55:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] they want meyer
Message-ID: <20041201105417.49888.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an old friend in the N*** D*** athletic
administration who said: a) this came out of nowhere
and b) they want to try and grab Meyer before Florida
does.

I understand the thinking: if Meyer is the next
genius, the guy who can make N*** D*** great again,
get him.

But it's pretty classless thing to do to Willingham
for a place that prides itself on doing things the
right way and talks about values.

BTW my friend mentioned that Willingham's hard-edged
personality did not make him any friends at ND. Still,
I have to think he'll be coaching again soon; ESPN
mentioned Washington. Illinois, maybe? Back to
Stanford? 

I don't envy the new coach. Expectations will be
outrageous, and the 2004 schedule opens with 4 games
of 5 on the road, including trips to Pittsburgh, West
Lafayette and Ann Arbor. Oh boy.

bw









 



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From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec  1 09:18:33 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec  1 09:22:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/1
Message-ID: <001101c4d7b9$074aca00$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>


for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

Yes I took yesterday off...


** Tuesday & Wednesday Combined Edition **
There's suddenly a lot of NU News out there...Basketball has a Big  [10]
Challenge tonight, so do the Lady Court Cats. There's also some Football, and
Recruiting. Cross Country signs two, and Wrestling gets 
started again. And don't forget all that Miscellany.

                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Northwestern Names Hilton Garden Inn Athletes of the Week 

http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/112904aaa.html 


Soccer's David Roth & Volleyball's Lindsay Anderson

Men's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats Hope to Again Cook Up Home Success
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/113004aaa.html 
     + Arc enemy: NU (1-3) way off target
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu01.html 
     $ Pregame Intel - Virginia Cavaliers
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/324986.html 

     We Get Virginia
     Preview: Gillen Takes Hoos To Northwestern
      http://virginia.scout.com/2/324332.html 
     + Cavaliers crack the AP top 25
 
http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_Ba
sicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779419244&path=%21sports 
     + photo slideshow
      javascript:var
x=window.open('http://media.gatewayva.com/cdp/siteimages/uva_morris/index.htm','
Slideshow','toolbar=no,location=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbars=no,resizable=
yes,top=' + 
     (screen.height-420)/2 + ',left=' + (screen.width-728)/2 +
',width=728,height=420') 
     + Virginia Men's Basketball To Play Northwestern Wednesday In ACC/Big Ten
Challenge
 
http://virginiasports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/113004aad.html 
     + UVa, Smith deliver 3s for Gillen
 
http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_Ba
sicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779400201&path= 
     + Cavs set to play Northwestern:
 
http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_Ba
sicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779440023&path= 

Big 10/ACC Challenge:

     ACC Takes Early Lead in 2004 Big Ten-ACC Challenge
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112804aab.html 

     Big Ten-ACC Challenge Continues
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112804aab.html 

     Myslenski:  Another kind of challenge
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/northwestern/cs-041128mys
lenski,1,1194989.column?coll=cs-college-nwestern-print 

     llinois - Wake Forest
     + Illinois, Wake guardedly optimistic
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041130colillinihoops,1
,4178592.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Wake Forest @ Illinois: A Preview
      http://illinois.scout.com/2/324791.html 
     + ILLINI SHINE AS STATE'S LONE BEACON
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ill01.html 

Commentary:

     POD: What's wrong with the Court Cats
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/324285.html 
     POD: 7 Reasons we need to Upset UVA
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/324769.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Chicago State
     Men's Basketball Hosts UW-Green Bay Wednesday in 2004-05 Home Opener
      http://www.csu.edu/Athletics/wbballhome.htm 

     De Paul
     Men's Basketball Opens December with Dayton
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1930 

     Seton Hall
     Men's Basketball Defeats Rhode Island, 59-49
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2344 

     Arizona State
     Arizona State Outlasts Temple, 65-62
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/113004aaa.html 

     Robert Morris
     Robert Morris Cruises Past Thiel, 107-47, in 2004-05 Home Opener
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60752&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7064&inws_seqno=6425&ihide_header=0 
     + RMU To Square off with Thiel Monday Night in 2004-05 Home Opener
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60752&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7061&inws_seqno=6420&ihide_header=0 


Women's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats Return Home to Face...Wildcats
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/112904aaa.html 

     From Kentucky...
     + Wildcats Face Northwestern in Big 10/SEC Battle
 
http://www.ukathletics.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=46&url_article_id=14299&u
rl_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2 
     + 2004-05 Feature Stories/Autograph Sessions
 
http://www.ukathletics.com/index.php?s=&change_well_id=2&url_article_id=14226 
     + Current Game Notes
 
http://www.ukathletics.com/index.php?s=&change_well_id=2&url_article_id=14221 

FOOTBALL

     POD: In Defense of Randy Walker
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/324489.html 

Commentary:

     Mariotti: The BCS: Beastly Chaotic Stupidity
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay30.html 

Other Big 10

     The Search at Illinois
     + Zook reportedly Illini coaching candidate
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041130illinifoot,1,127
3033.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + The Coaching Search: Day 7
      http://illinois.scout.com/2/324778.html 
     + The Coaching Search: Day 6
      http://illinois.scout.com/2/324225.html 
     + IlliniBoard.com's Coaching Odds: The List
      http://illinois.scout.com/2/322043.html 

[We're in Reading Week, so the Daily is done for the year]

RECRUITING

     Surprise, then questions ... but positives possible
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cruit01.html 

     Prince Kwateng: Midwest Hot 100 - LB Prince Kwateng
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=324013 

     Eric Schultz Makes Weekend Decision
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=324045&nid=1222119&fhn=1 

      Michael Hicks Four Visits Now Set
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=324314&nid=1424003&fhn=1 
     $ Jacksonville Athlete Has Louisville Interest
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=324335 

     Terrance Jamison Atmosphere and Chemistry
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=324700&nid=1180759&fhn=1 

     this will cost you to watch, but its something new from Scout.com
     Video Feature: Who's No. 1?
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=324037 

CROSS COUNTRY

     Wildcats Sign Two to NLI
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-xc/spec-rel/112904aaa.html 

WRESTLING

     Wildcats Host First Dual Match
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/112904aab.html 

Miscellany

     Kansas compares their 2005 non-conference team schedule to playing NU
     'Hawks' 2005 season diverse
 
http://www.kansan.com/getstory.aspx?id=2fe93533-98b6-4dbb-9bfd-c93816ed0b09 

     The Coaching Change Flap at the Evil Empire...He beat Michigan and
Tennessee, but couldn't beat BYU, Boston College and Pitt - teams they've
dominated over the years...
     Willingham gets booted
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041130irishwillingham,
1,6587258.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Utah's Meyer just might slight the Irish
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-041130greenstein,1,
2693085.column?coll=cs-college-utility 
     + Firing a surprise to Parseghian
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041130irishreax,cs-bea
rstoday,4105061.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Critic's corner: Irish clearly out of touch
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041130colirishcriticsc
orner,cs-bearstoday,4794925.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Notre Dame opening sparks Meyer speculation
      http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=26705136 

     And Gary B lands on his feet...
     Despite scandals, Barnett named Big 12 coach of year
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3205864 

You Can Help one of our own...

     Greg Kane, one of our former basketball writers is running in a
half-marathon to support his niece who has a rare degenerative disease. You can
help by sponsoring him in the race - Here's the link  if 
     you'd like to help. Thanks.
      http://www.atcp.org/Fundraising/Marathoners/KaneGreg.htm rplewildcats.com)

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
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From AdamRitt at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 09:35:43 2004
From: AdamRitt at aol.com (AdamRitt@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 09:37:10 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] they want meyer
Message-ID: <6795E47F.6A6E4134.006B3326@aol.com>

I read that Meyer has out-clauses for ND, Ohio St.--and Michigan. The rumor 'round Detroit is that Lloyd Carr might step down after this season. I agree with Alan's hunch that the Willingham firing is related to the chance to bring in Meyer, but I wonder if ND isn't more worried about Michigan than Florida. 

The Weeping Clown (Mariotti), by the way, again brilliantly executes another finger-to-the-wind column and trashes the same guy he praised to the high heavens a couple of years ago. Shocking.


From tmcadams at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 10:50:19 2004
From: tmcadams at yahoo.com (Trey McAdams)
Date: Wed Dec  1 10:51:37 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Notre Dame
In-Reply-To: <B49519DB-435C-11D9-9483-000A95960BF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20041201165019.18337.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com>

Interesting Stat.

How many Division 1 football teams have finished the
season in the Top 10 since Notre Dame last finished in
the Top 10...






40.  And I think that NU is in this list.  It will be
43 if Boise State, Utah, and Louisville finish this
season in the Top 10.
--- John Labbe <johnl@mac.com> wrote:

> >
> > I have no doubt that at one time it WAS the
> premier job ... but I 
> > really
> > doubt it is anymore. Would Pete Carroll or Bob
> Stoops even return a 
> > call
> > from the Domers? Would Jim Tressel or Lloyd Carr
> swap spots? Bobby 
> > Bowden
> > and Philip Fulmer probably won't even notice that
> the position's been
> > vacated.
> 
> I'm not sure what the answer to this is, but if ND
> is not the top job, 
> then what is?  I don't think your analysis above is
> correct.  Fifteen 
> years ago, Joe Paterno wouldn't have been interested
> in a job at ND 
> either.  In other words, the best job for a coach
> who is already at one 
> of the top dozen or so programs and has already
> established a winning 
> record is probably where he already is.  The right
> question is what is 
> the number one school where coaches hope to coach
> among coaches who are 
> aren't already at top programs.  I think ND would
> still be up there.
> 
> >
> > And the Irish's biggest edge used to be that they
> had a TV network -- 
> > but
> > that's not as big anymore either. We were on TV as
> much as the Irish 
> > this
> > past season ... ditto for Michigan, Florida, Texas
> and other schools.
> >
> I've heard you say this before, but no one else has
> nearly as many 
> games nationally televised on a broadcast network as
> Notre Dame.  By 
> nationally televised, I mean televised everywhere in
> the nation.  By 
> broadcast network, I mean one you can get on the
> rabbit ears.  Every 
> single home game and at least some of their road
> games (including last 
> weekend's) fall into this category.
> 
> Like it or not, the Notre Dame football program is a
> national 
> phenomenon like no other.  Two other points on this
> topic:  1) Sports 
> Center spent the first 20 minutes on this subject
> tonight (it's very 
> unusual for Sports Center to spend that much time on
> any topic); 2) 
> We're talking about this on this list.
> 
> On the main subject at hand, yes, it was crazy for
> them to fire 
> Willingham, but it makes for interesting news.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 



		
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From NEONRye at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 11:26:42 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 11:28:10 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND fires TW
Message-ID: <12a.519f54bc.2edf58d2@aol.com>

No, Tom, you are very sane.  In my day at NU, when we protested, it  was 
about something important, like the Vietnam War--not whether or not the  football 
coach won enough games, even though he graduated a large percentage of  
students and impacted positively on the lives of those he coached.    For shame, 
Notre Dame.  You showed your true colors--Green ($$) and Gold  (as in diamonds).  
How the man could not even be permitted to coach his  recruits to any degree 
is mind-boggling.  I hope we schedule them again, as  I would love to see our 
student-athletes kick the butts of what I have no doubt  will now be their 
mercenaries.  I see a lowering of standards at the Dome  on the horizon.
 
Paul Levinson
From spiritu at northwestern.edu  Wed Dec  1 12:11:24 2004
From: spiritu at northwestern.edu (Jonathan Michael Hawkins)
Date: Wed Dec  1 12:12:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU is 73rd in Times Higher Ed Survey
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412011207570.29750@localhost>

The Times (of London) Higher Education Survey came out on November 5,
2004, and NU is ranked number 73 in the world.

<http://sky.prohosting.com/gssq/misc/unis.htm>

We're 1 spot behind the University of California at Santa Barbara.  We're
49 spots behind the University of California at San Diego.  USC, I'm happy
to note, is 180th.

We're 7 spots behind Wisconsin, 14 spots behind Purdue, 38 spots behind
Illinois, 42 spots behind Michigan, and 60 spots behind Chicago.

Here's the Big Ten, from highest to lowest:

13: University of Chicago ("Chicago University")
31: University of Michigan ("Michigan University")
35: University of Illinois ("Illinois University")
59: Purdue University
66: University of Wisconsin ("Wisconsin University")
73: Northwestern University
82: University of Minnesota ("Minnesota University")
106: University of Iowa ("Iowa University")
116: Michigan State University
130: Penn State University
174: Indiana University

(Unsuprisingly) Not in Top 200: (the) Ohio State University
(Suprisingly, but satisfyingly) Not in Top 200: Notre Dame

The THES inexplicably put University of Texas at 15, Texas A&M at 105, and
Rice at 146, in a bizarre shakeup of the state of Texas.

Inexplicable given the THES' focus on including half the schools in the
California system is the exclusion of academic heavyweights Texas A&M
International University at Laredo, the University of Texas at El Paso,
and the Southwest Texas State Teacher's College.

Go Cats, beat the Cavaliers,

Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan Michael Hawkins       "The only thing necessary for the triumph
<http://www.jomiha.com>         of evil is for good men to do nothing."

This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or
proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to
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From johnl at mac.com  Wed Dec  1 13:09:05 2004
From: johnl at mac.com (John Labbe)
Date: Wed Dec  1 13:09:19 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU is 73rd in Times Higher Ed Survey
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412011207570.29750@localhost>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412011207570.29750@localhost>
Message-ID: <2252160.1101928145421.JavaMail.johnl@mac.com>

I'm not sure what this has to do with sports, but how much stock do you put in a ranking that places Purdue 14 spots ahead of us (as an overall university)?  It's a heck of a thing to rank universities internationally as a whole university.  None of the US News rankings, for example, purport to rank an entire university (they focus on undergrad, grad departments and professional schools).

It's clear that this survey is an international name-recognition contest that heavily favors research univesities with famous, big, far-reaching graduate programs.  NU's lack of name-recognition (it's not exactly a unique name) probably hurts.  As for ND, it's primarily an undergraduate school; it doesn't really have a top name as a graduate school.  You don't see many U.S. liberal arts colleges, for instance.

Well, I'm headed up to the Virginia game tonight.  I'm hoping we'll be pumped up for our first home game and score a win on national TV.



On Wednesday, December 01, 2004, at 01:39PM, Jonathan Michael Hawkins <spiritu@northwestern.edu> wrote:

>The Times (of London) Higher Education Survey came out on November 5,
>2004, and NU is ranked number 73 in the world.
>
><http://sky.prohosting.com/gssq/misc/unis.htm>
>
>We're 1 spot behind the University of California at Santa Barbara.  We're
>49 spots behind the University of California at San Diego.  USC, I'm happy
>to note, is 180th.
>
>We're 7 spots behind Wisconsin, 14 spots behind Purdue, 38 spots behind
>Illinois, 42 spots behind Michigan, and 60 spots behind Chicago.
>
>Here's the Big Ten, from highest to lowest:
>
>13: University of Chicago ("Chicago University")
>31: University of Michigan ("Michigan University")
>35: University of Illinois ("Illinois University")
>59: Purdue University
>66: University of Wisconsin ("Wisconsin University")
>73: Northwestern University
>82: University of Minnesota ("Minnesota University")
>106: University of Iowa ("Iowa University")
>116: Michigan State University
>130: Penn State University
>174: Indiana University
>
>(Unsuprisingly) Not in Top 200: (the) Ohio State University
>(Suprisingly, but satisfyingly) Not in Top 200: Notre Dame
>
>The THES inexplicably put University of Texas at 15, Texas A&M at 105, and
>Rice at 146, in a bizarre shakeup of the state of Texas.
>
>Inexplicable given the THES' focus on including half the schools in the
>California system is the exclusion of academic heavyweights Texas A&M
>International University at Laredo, the University of Texas at El Paso,
>and the Southwest Texas State Teacher's College.
>
>Go Cats, beat the Cavaliers,
>
>Jonathan
>
>-- 
>Jonathan Michael Hawkins       "The only thing necessary for the triumph
><http://www.jomiha.com>         of evil is for good men to do nothing."
>
>This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or
>proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to
>which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended
>recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified
>that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
>sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>

From jleonard518 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 13:11:57 2004
From: jleonard518 at yahoo.com (Jim Leonard)
Date: Wed Dec  1 13:13:08 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Motor City takes UConn
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412011207570.29750@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041201191157.53911.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com>

The UConn Huskies will take on the MAC Championship game winner. Looks like the
NCAA must have told them a 6-6 waiver for MSU or NU was unlikely. 




		
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From TyJLevine at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 13:50:31 2004
From: TyJLevine at aol.com (TyJLevine@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 13:52:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] No DiNardo is Fired
Message-ID: <7b.397847e3.2edf7a87@aol.com>

and Crowton at BYU
 
 
Heck  We should keep Walker just to show the world that at least one  
University has some class.
 
All of these school obviously see this year as once in a decade chance to  
get a great Coach.
From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec  1 14:15:21 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 14:22:44 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] No DiNardo is Fired
In-Reply-To: <7b.397847e3.2edf7a87@aol.com>
References: <7b.397847e3.2edf7a87@aol.com>
Message-ID: <50750.66.170.163.178.1101932121.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

What?! I'm outraged. How classless ... he was never given a cha ...

Eh, it's Indiana. I doubt many folks on campus even noticed.:)

It's been awhile since the Big Ten had two openings in a year though,
hasn't it? Certainly the quality of coaches in the league has improved
lately -- with Kirk Ferentz and John L. Smith doing some amazing jobs the
past couple years. But I really doubt Illinois and Indiana will go after
(or be able to attract) big-name coaches.

As for the Notre Dame fiasco ...

- I too read the Trib's description of Urban Meyer's clause about "Notre
Dame AND Michigan and OSU" with interest. The national media seems to just
be reporting the ND escape clause. Perhaps the chance of Michigan opening
up through retirement or Ohio State through scandal is what worried the
Domers much more than Florida.

- I'm really tempted to hire a chorus of violins to follow Bob Davie
around for all his media interviews following this firing. Favorite part:
He keeps saying ND's schedule is soooooo tough and that if they were in a
conference they'd have some breaks, but instead ND has a big-name opponent
every week. Yeah ... no breaks with those service academy games every
year.:)

- As for ND being THE top job, I'm still not convinced. I don't think
there is a single top job in college sports today ... anyone at one of the
Michigans, Oklahomas, Tennessees, etc. probably feels they have it and
they're right in a way. The parity, the facilities, the TV coverage, etc.
haven't brought total parity, but they have really leveled the playing
field among the top 20 or so programs. Meyer's escape clause lists three
schools ... not just Notre Dame.

Just look at the candidates Notre Dame attracted the last two coaching
hunts -- not exactly the best and brightest clawing for the chance to walk
the hallowed sidelines. They do have more national network games, I give
you, but most folks have ESPN now, and those are national -- as are CBS'
SEC games, and ABC's Big Ten games reach a majority of viewers. ESPN
devoted 20 minutes to it because of a slow news day in sports.:) It was a
surprising turn of events and newsworthy ... ND's past makes them college
football royalty and this is one of their bigger blunders ... if nothing
else, the classless way it was handled really debunks the myth that Notre
Dame is "different" and it makes a "values" statement in the wrong
direction for Notre Dame and college sports.

As for why it's so popular a topic on this list ... well, we're still
smarting from football, basketball is off to a slow start and it's always
fun to bash the Evil Empire.:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From MHRJGScott at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 14:34:11 2004
From: MHRJGScott at aol.com (MHRJGScott@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 14:38:13 2004
Subject: [NU Sports]  Fired
Message-ID: <194.330ea529.2edf84c3@aol.com>

Has Northwestern ever fired a coach or did they all leave due to  
"restiveness" a la Ara  Parseghian.

From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 15:11:50 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Wed Dec  1 15:13:02 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] No DiNardo is Fired
In-Reply-To: <50750.66.170.163.178.1101932121.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
Message-ID: <20041201211150.44069.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>


--- sjtruog@jorsm.com wrote:

> What?! I'm outraged. How classless ... he was never given a cha ...
> 
> Eh, it's Indiana. I doubt many folks on campus even noticed.:)

True, but I have to say (barring evidence of some sort of off-field
problem), he REALLY got screwed. This was the first year he had 85
scholarship players--I think he had about 60 his first year. What the
*#(D$ were they expecting him to accomplish in 3 years?

What, do they think they have a shot in the Urban Myer sweepstakes too?


Then again, I suppose most of these guys have contracts with guarenteed
money, and will be laughing all the way to the bank as they cash
paychecks for work some other soon-to-be-fired coach is doing?

Sheesh,
Tom

From CHerron604 at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 16:24:25 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 16:28:28 2004
Subject: [NU Sports]  Fired
Message-ID: <4FCE0700.6640D821.0A143833@aol.com>

"Has Northwestern ever fired a coach or did they all leave due to  
"restiveness" a la Ara  Parseghian.?"

To the best of my recollection (or whatever I have read...)

1926  Glenn Thistlethwaite got restive, and went to Wisconsin after his championship season (He was later forced to resign there).

1934  Dick Hanley resigned after a few too many bad seasons.

1946  Pappy Waldorf got restive and went to Cal, where he lost to Northwestern in the Rose Bowl.

1954  Bob Voigts resigned, allegedly under pressure from unnamed alums.

1955  I have no idea what Lou Saban did - does anyone remember ?  He was back coaching at Western Illinois a year or so later.

1963  Ara got restive and went to Notre Dame.

1972  Alex Agase got restive and went to Purdue.

1977  I am not sure...Did John Pont technically resign to become AD ?

1980  Rick Venturi was definitely fired by Bob Strotz (John Pont as AD also).  I vaguely remember the screaming Daily headlines and the grievances of the African-American players.

1985  Dennis Green got restive, and went to work with his old friend Bill Walsh for the NFL 49ers.

1991  I certainly seem to recall that Fran Peay got fired, but he might have been forced to resign.

1998   Gary Barnett got restive and went to Colorado.

So it looks like 3 firings in 75 years ?  Saban, Venturi and Peay.

Chuck Herron   Tech '85 

From TyJLevine at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 17:10:06 2004
From: TyJLevine at aol.com (TyJLevine@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 17:14:08 2004
Subject: [NU Sports]  Fired
Message-ID: <140.38c25520.2edfa94e@aol.com>

Peay was definitely fired.
From MHRJGScott at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 17:41:04 2004
From: MHRJGScott at aol.com (MHRJGScott@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 17:54:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports]  Fired
Message-ID: <102.555e141f.2edfb090@aol.com>

Thanks Chuck!

I have  no idea what Lou Saban did - does anyone remember ?  He was back 
coaching  at Western Illinois a year or so later.

After his stint at WIU, wherever that is, didn't Lou win an AFL title in  
Buffalo, something Marv Levy never did?

1980  Rick Venturi was definitely fired by Bob Strotz (John Pont  as AD also).
Correct, I ran into Rick when he was an assistant in New Orleans and he  said 
the days in Evanston were the low point of his professional life. With a  
record of 1-31-1 I would guess so.

1991  Fran Peay 
Interesting stuff given the firing at the Evil Empire
 
Francis Peay, who played tackle for the Packers from 1968-'72, was the  
second black head coach in football to be hired in the Big Ten Conference. Peay  
was hired by Northwestern University in 1986 and coached there until 1991. 
Peay succeeded Dennis Green, who was the first black head coach hired  for 
football in the Big Ten. Green coached the Wildcats from 1981-'85 and later  
went on to coach at Stanford starting in 1989, where he became the first black  
head coach in football in the Pacific 10. 
A chart included in Richard Lapchick's "2003 Racial and Gender Report  Card" 
says there have been 17 African-American men who, through Feb. 15, 2003,  have 
been hired as head coaches in the history of Division I-A football. Three  of 
the coaches have been hired twice by schools: Green (Northwestern,  
Stanford), Ron Cooper (Eastern Michigan, Louisville) and Tyrone  Willingham (Stanford, 
Notre Dame).
From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Wed Dec  1 18:54:57 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Wed Dec  1 18:55:53 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
Message-ID: <200412020055.iB20tpZE021536@gw.tssi.com>

I have several partners who are ND alums who provided me with what I thought
were the views of many of the alums.  They were shocked at the actions of
the university but not in the way you might expect. They never believed that
ND would have the guts to do something which to their minds so obviously
needed to be done.  After all, ND had never fired a coach before the end of
a contract term (with the exception of the O'Leary mess).  In their minds,
this was not a racial matter at all.  There was simply no progress being
made.  
 
Losing to SC by 31 points three years in a row is sufficient reason to be
fired according to these alums.  It is now clear to me, that ND has
sacrificed whatever pretense to a higher calling it ever claimed.  It is
just another football factory, albeit one with their own tv network.  Does
this make the firing right?  Who's to say?  There are stories out of South
Bend that the Univ. of Wash. asked for permission to talk to Ty that other
inquiries were being made.  So, maybe this wasn't entirely out of the blue
and maybe Kevin White knows exactly what Urban Meyer wants to do next year
and knew he had to act know.  Those are all things we may never know.  To
me, the interesting point is that the alumni had been screaming for his head
for going on two years and the euphoria over the firing crashed the servers
on their rivals site twice today.
 
Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 
 
From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Wed Dec  1 21:03:12 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Wed Dec  1 21:08:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
Message-ID: <41AE85F0.2060108@hilgraeve.com>

First a disclaimer - this post is not about firing RW.  I agree that, 
baring some health problem, he is going to be coaching NU next year.  So 
it isn't worth discussing that any more. 

This is about the larger question of why ND, Stanford, and Indiana 
didn't seem to be afraid of the dire consequences that some on this list 
associate with firing a coach.

 From where we sit, it may seem precipitous and unfair (particularly the 
DiNardo firing), but we aren't the ones responsible.  The governing 
bodies of these institutions are.  Perhaps they are all stupid, 
misguided, and unprincipled.  Perhaps they have lost sight of the value 
of education, have unreasonable expectations, and have sold out to the 
football dollar. 

OR

Perhaps they know something that some folks on this list are unwilling 
to admit.  Perhaps they do care about their institutions more than we 
can ever know.  Perhaps they have a better understanding of what is 
possible and the courage to take action when it's required regardless of 
the criticism that it attracts.  These boards are full of people who 
have demonstrated that they understand leadership, success, and committment.

There is a popular saying in business management that you are limited by 
what you tolerate.

It is fairly obvious that RW is welcome to stay another year at NU if he 
wants to.  With the loss in Hawaii, I seriously doubt that he is going 
to be on anyone else's short list for the all of the openings we're 
likely to see in the next couple of weeks.

These actions DO give us an interesting opportunity to observe what 
happens to these particular institutions over the next couple of years. 

Some on this list would predict that each of these institutions will 
fall into deep recruiting and rebuilding holes and will ultimately fall 
further behind than they would have been if they had just allowed their 
current coaches to continue to make incremental improvements. 

If, on the other hand, each of these institutions ends up making 
significant progress over the next three or four years (ND getting a BCS 
bid, Stanford contending for the PC-10 championship, Indiana going to a 
bowl game), what sort of conclusion could be drawn? 

First, that a lot of people may owe the governing bodies of these 
institutions an apology.

Second, that perhaps the fastest track to success is to change coaches 
when they don't do what they were hired to do.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.  Hope I'm here to 
claim victory and admit defeat.

Jeff



From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec  1 21:19:16 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Wed Dec  1 21:24:17 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hoops at the half ...
Message-ID: <l03130300bdd43574114a@[66.170.160.186]>

A bit sloppy at the end of the half, but still within reach, down 23-19.

I didn't see the first four games of the year, but I'm really trying to
figure out how the NU team I'm watching tonight lost 3 of its first four
games. Maybe they all had big inside players? Virginia's killing us in the
paint, but that will get better once Thompson is eligible (and he's looking
every bit the physical presence down low that we've lacked since Evan's
years here).

I really love watching our backcourt play ball - Hachad is a scrappy
defender who's fun to watch and Parker looks more in control running the
offense. Our Croatian connection -- Doubte D and Double V -- are solid
all-around players (though VV has to start stepping up into Jitim's
leadership role -- he's too hot/cold off/on and needs to be able to make a
play when we need a bucket).

And I like this Doyle kid a lot too with his all-around hustle play and
doing the little things. And the freshman Lee has looked solid off the
bench ... plus we have Seacat as well.

When the offense is clicking, it's a thing of beauty to watch us snap that
ball all the way around the arc with crisp passes, waiting to find the
defensive breakdown. The Big Ten is tough at the top (man, did Illinois
look awesome tonight ... MSU was right in there at Cameron ... and
Wisconsin's unbeatable at the Kohl Center), but if Thompson shores up our
rebounding and inside defense, I can see this team really coming together
nicely in January and February to make a nice run in March.

Right now. we're playing our tempo at the half. That Elton Brown is looking
like Elton Brand down low for the Cavs, but our transition defense is
keeping the game within reach. It'd be nice to see us pull this one out!

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec  1 23:06:13 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec  1 23:09:40 2004
Subject: [NU Sports]  Fired
In-Reply-To: <194.330ea529.2edf84c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001801c4d82c$a5ac4e30$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Even the guys who were asked to leave, did so at the end of their contract...

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of MHRJGScott@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:34 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Fired
> 
> 
> Has Northwestern ever fired a coach or did they all leave due to  
> "restiveness" a la Ara  Parseghian.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  2 00:16:46 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  2 00:20:21 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
In-Reply-To: <200412020055.iB20tpZE021536@gw.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <001901c4d836$80b362d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

I think the approach by U of Wash may be as important as Urban Meyer's future
plans.

If Willingham had bolted back to the west coast, it would have left the Irish
with something unique in their history, a coach that left for another job!

If Meyer is indeed ND's choice, why didn't they hire him away from the Bugs 3
years ago?

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

  There are stories out 
> of South Bend that the Univ. of Wash. asked for permission to 
> talk to Ty that other inquiries were being made.  So, maybe 
> this wasn't entirely out of the blue and maybe Kevin White 
> knows exactly what Urban Meyer wants to do next year and knew 
> he had to act know.  Those are all things we may never know. 

From Alan.Abrahamson at latimes.com  Thu Dec  2 00:30:19 2004
From: Alan.Abrahamson at latimes.com (Abrahamson, Alan)
Date: Thu Dec  2 00:38:24 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
Message-ID: <6A0419188B49A54C960893D230C268070146EF5E@goose.latimes.com>

To answer Coach Roy's q: because three years ago Meyer had proven only that he could win at Bowling Green - now, in taking a non-BCS school to the promised land, he has achieved greatness - ND people lust for FB greatness 
 - Alan




-----Original Message-----
From: Roy S. Lamberton <rstetson@capps-assoc.com>
To: 'Mark S. Ament' <prplehaze@insightbb.com>; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
Sent: Wed Dec 01 22:16:46 2004
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] ND action

I think the approach by U of Wash may be as important as Urban Meyer's future
plans.

If Willingham had bolted back to the west coast, it would have left the Irish
with something unique in their history, a coach that left for another job!

If Meyer is indeed ND's choice, why didn't they hire him away from the Bugs 3
years ago?

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

  There are stories out 
> of South Bend that the Univ. of Wash. asked for permission to 
> talk to Ty that other inquiries were being made.  So, maybe 
> this wasn't entirely out of the blue and maybe Kevin White 
> knows exactly what Urban Meyer wants to do next year and knew 
> he had to act know.  Those are all things we may never know. 

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  2 08:05:15 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  2 08:08:49 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
In-Reply-To: <6A0419188B49A54C960893D230C268070146EF5E@goose.latimes.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c4d877$f3090920$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

'twas a rhetorical question after all...<g>

And another - what of the suggestion that Willingham had been contacted by
Washington?

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Abrahamson, Alan [mailto:Alan.Abrahamson@latimes.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:30 AM
> To: 'rstetson@capps-assoc.com'; 'prplehaze@insightbb.com'; 
> 'nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com'
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] ND action
> 
> 
> To answer Coach Roy's q: because three years ago Meyer had 
> proven only that he could win at Bowling Green - now, in 
> taking a non-BCS school to the promised land, he has achieved 
> greatness - ND people lust for FB greatness 
>  - Alan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy S. Lamberton <rstetson@capps-assoc.com>
> To: 'Mark S. Ament' <prplehaze@insightbb.com>; 
> nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
> Sent: Wed Dec 01 22:16:46 2004
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] ND action
> 
> I think the approach by U of Wash may be as important as 
> Urban Meyer's future plans.
> 
> If Willingham had bolted back to the west coast, it would 
> have left the Irish with something unique in their history, a 
> coach that left for another job!
> 
> If Meyer is indeed ND's choice, why didn't they hire him away 
> from the Bugs 3 years ago?
> 
> rsl
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
> Computer Applications & Support Associates
> and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
> The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
> (http://www.purplewildcats.com)
> AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
> 
> =========================================
> No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
> itself to prosperity...Think about it.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> 
>   There are stories out 
> > of South Bend that the Univ. of Wash. asked for permission to
> > talk to Ty that other inquiries were being made.  So, maybe 
> > this wasn't entirely out of the blue and maybe Kevin White 
> > knows exactly what Urban Meyer wants to do next year and knew 
> > he had to act know.  Those are all things we may never know. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 09:18:21 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Thu Dec  2 09:19:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
In-Reply-To: <001a01c4d877$f3090920$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <20041202151822.20989.qmail@web52002.mail.yahoo.com>

> 
> And another - what of the suggestion that Willingham had been
> contacted by
> Washington?

FWIW, the Chicago Trib story did indicate that Willingham was contacted
by Washington, and that he had turned them down. While I like the idea
of ND being afraid of actually losing a coach, I doubt that was really
what was at work here. The Trib also mentioned that Willingham had been
receiving death threats. 

Some people apparently have lost track of the fact that it's just a
game.

Tom

From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 09:37:15 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Thu Dec  2 09:38:27 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <41AE85F0.2060108@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>

> Some on this list would predict that each of these institutions will 
> fall into deep recruiting and rebuilding holes and will ultimately
> fall further behind than they would have been if they had just
allowed
> their current coaches to continue to make incremental improvements. 
> 
> If, on the other hand, each of these institutions ends up making 
> significant progress over the next three or four years (ND getting a
> BCS bid, Stanford contending for the PC-10 championship, Indiana
going > to a  bowl game), what sort of conclusion could be drawn? 
> 
> First, that a lot of people may owe the governing bodies of these 
> institutions an apology.

Jeff:

I think I get your point, and it's a case that could certainly be
argued, but I don't entirely agree. I would argue that just because a
decision produces the desired results doesn't necessarily mean that it
was the right decision. 

Suppose ND or Indiana do find significant success within the next 2 or
3 years (or even next year) under their new coach. You can't be sure
that the previous coaches might not have achieved the same (or even
greater) success had they been allowed to say. The success of new
coaches is college sports is always linked to some degree to the level
of talent and the personalities of the players they inherit. 

But there's more to it then that. I have no problem with a pro football
coach being judged purely on the basis of on-field results. But college
athletics should be about more than that (I know, they almost never are
in reality...). 

If all that matters to ND is winning, then they may very well be better
of with Meyer--maybe MUCH better off. And on that basis it may be a
very bold, and wise decision. The problem is that ND likes to pretend
that it's about more than that. And this decision deeply undermines
that stance IMO.

And I just think the DiNardo thing was wrong with a capital W (again,
unless there are factors going on we don't know about). His successor
will almost *certainly* have a better record than DiNardo, because
DiNardo was stuck rebuilt possibly the most broken college football
team in the country. Now someone else will benefit from his hard work. 

Tom

From TyJLevine at aol.com  Thu Dec  2 09:58:21 2004
From: TyJLevine at aol.com (TyJLevine@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec  2 09:59:52 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
Message-ID: <111.3e861975.2ee0959d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:39:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
Alan.Abrahamson@latimes.com writes:

To  answer Coach Roy's q: because three years ago Meyer had proven only that 
he  could win at Bowling Green - now, in taking a non-BCS school to the 
promised  land, he has achieved greatness - ND people lust for FB greatness 
-  Alan



As someone pointed out on the NU Rivals site no one really knows if Meyer  
can recruit to the level ND wants.  As ESPN pointed out ND has to change  and 
actually recruit rather than expecting ND's reputation to sell itself.   Meyer 
has succeeded at BG and Utah with a lot of JC recruits-which ND doesn't  accept.
 
I do not believe ND is the Valhalla of college football  anymore.
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  2 10:03:15 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  2 10:06:45 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/2
Message-ID: <001c01c4d888$6fca0940$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Thursday  Edition **
Disappointing News from the Basketball court. More Coaching Carousel news as it
effects the Big 10. Honors, and speculation from Football. Soccer looks back...

                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats Edged By No. 24 Virginia, 48-44
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120204aac.html 
     + Close Game, No Win: UVa 48-NU 44
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/325308.html 
     $ First off the Bench for NU
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=325313&nid=1224631&fhn=1 
     + Effort evident, but loss results
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041201colnu,1,420867.s
tory?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Same story for Wildcats
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu02.html 
     + 'Careless' Cats fall to Virginia
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38323136 
     + No. 24 Virginia 48, Northwestern 44
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/024sd1.htm 

     Lowes Line BKB Preview
      http://hailtopurple.com/features/lowesline4k27.html 

     Virginia Got Us...

     They kinda happy they won the game - they weren't sure they would...
     Hoos Escape With 48-44 Win
      http://virginia.scout.com/2/325331.html 
     + Cavaliers outgrind Wildcats
 
http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_Ba
sicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779464550&path=%21sports 
     + Virginia picks up big win on the road
 
http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_Ba
sicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779464716&path=%21sports 

Big 10/ACC Challenge:

     Big Ten-ACC Challenge Concludes
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112804aab.html 

     Illinois turns home battle into no-Wake zone early
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041201illinigamer,1,25
49272.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Wake Forest just another victim for Illinois
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ill02.html 
     + What Challenge?
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38323335 
     + Illini gush over Orange Krush
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38323127 
     + No. 5 Illinois 91, No. 1 Wake Forest 73
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/021sd1.htm 

     + Willhite:  What Challenge?
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38323335 
     + Cronin: Williams gets the job done, quietly
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/021sd2.htm 

Commentary:

     Inconsistency Killed the 'Cats
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/gbe120104.html 

     Coach Roy: Random Thoughts on This and That...
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/325456.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Chicago State
     Opens Home Schedule With Loss to UW-Green Bay
      http://www.csu.edu/Athletics/Mbasketballhome.htm 

     De Paul
     Demons' win on 'Q'
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041201coldepaul,1,2753
861.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Greer, Demons turn it around
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-demon02.html 
     + Greer's 29 points help DePaul back on track
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38323133 

     Seton Hall
     Men's Basketball Hosts Monmouth Thursday Night
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2348 
     + Seton Hall men's matchup box
 
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1101967852311030.xml 


     Arizona State
     Taller Owls lose game, and battle of boards
 
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/special_packages/marchmania/10309598.htm

     + ASU says it made a big statement in moving to 4-1
      http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=32405 
     + Arizona State Outlasts Temple, 65-62
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/113004aaa.html 

     Robert Morris
     Men's Basketball Cruises Past Thiel, 107-47, in 2004-05 Home Opener at
Sewall Center
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60509&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7063&inws_seqno=6424&ihide_header=0 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Northwestern Falls Short of Kentucky, 70-63
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/120104aac.html 

     Earlier - last weekend
     Wildcats earn first hoops win
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-02-04-450826.
html 

FOOTBALL

     Jeff Backes and Luis Castillo Named ESPN The Magazine First-Team Academic
All-Americans
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120104aab.html 

     $ Scouting Report: Loren Howard
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=325265 

     Sports XChange: Wildcats report: Strategy and personnel
      http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/report/NW/7952466 
     + Notes, quotes
      http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/report/NW/7952465 
     + Inside slant
      http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/report/NW/7952464 

Commentary:

     Watts: Wildcats blow bid to Music City Bowl 
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-02-04-448250.
html 

[We're in Reading Week, so the Daily is done for the year]

RECRUITING

     Rasheed Ward Ready for Big Ten Visit
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=325270&nid=1174181&fhn=1 
     Lawrence Westbrook Huge Game For Junior Guard
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=325039&nid=1348392&fhn=1 
     Terrance Jamison Atmosphere and Chemistry
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=324700&nid=1180759&fhn=1 

     Scout.com: Official Visit List
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=6 

SOCCER

     Northwestern's best season ends in second round loss
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-02-04-447399.
html 

Miscellany

     Doin' that coaching shuffle...
     Willingham's no match for this offense
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041201irish,1,2386945.
story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + ND Bears think Ty got a bum deal from Irish
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-bsep02.html 
     + Utah, ND tug at Meyer's future
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nd02.html 
     + 3 more coaches out at IU, BYU, Ole Miss
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-fired02.html 
     + Meyer to meet with Irish Thursday
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3211400 
     + Haynes: Forgone Conclusion
 
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot/misc/campus.
htm 
     + Mandel: Coaching carousel reaching full speed
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/stewart_mandel/11/30/irish.fallout
/index.html 

You Can Help one of our own...

     Greg Kane, one of our former basketball writers is running in a
half-marathon to support his niece who has a rare degenerative disease. You can
help by sponsoring him in the race - Here's the link  if 
     you'd like to help. Thanks.
      http://www.atcp.org/Fundraising/Marathoners/KaneGreg.htm 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
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 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
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The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

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* Official NU Athletic Site: 
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http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
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* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
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http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
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 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From Alan.Abrahamson at latimes.com  Thu Dec  2 10:17:40 2004
From: Alan.Abrahamson at latimes.com (Abrahamson, Alan)
Date: Thu Dec  2 10:25:43 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND action
Message-ID: <6A0419188B49A54C960893D230C268070146EF61@goose.latimes.com>

 Well, one more thought, and let me stress that I am not trying to be difficult nor am I a secret Irish fan. Hardly.
 Meyer has succeeded at Utah with a quarterback who graduated in three years; who is bright, personable; and who stands a chance of playing on Sundays.
 If he can recruit that kind of young man to Salt Lake City, I have little doubt he can recruit to South Bend.
 Utah, by the way, is an excellent academic institution -- more so than most people think. I spent considerable time there before and during the SLC 2002 Olympics, and the University of Utah is a first-rate place. But, and this is stating the obvious, it doesn't have an ND fb pedigree.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: TyJLevine@aol.com
To: Alan.Abrahamson@latimes.com; rstetson@capps-assoc.com; prplehaze@insightbb.com; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Sent: 12/2/2004 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] ND action

In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:39:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
Alan.Abrahamson@latimes.com writes:

To answer Coach Roy's q: because three years ago Meyer had proven only
that he could win at Bowling Green - now, in taking a non-BCS school to
the promised land, he has achieved greatness - ND people lust for FB
greatness 
- Alan


As someone pointed out on the NU Rivals site no one really knows if
Meyer can recruit to the level ND wants.  As ESPN pointed out ND has to
change and actually recruit rather than expecting ND's reputation to
sell itself.  Meyer has succeeded at BG and Utah with a lot of JC
recruits-which ND doesn't accept.
 
I do not believe ND is the Valhalla of college football anymore.

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Thu Dec  2 11:22:37 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Thu Dec  2 11:28:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41AF4F5D.5050101@hilgraeve.com>

Tom,

Actually I think that we are on the same page here.

Whether improvement was the result of the previous coaches good work, 
whatever "message" was sent by the firing, or the talents of the new 
coach - in the context of this discussion IT DOESN'T MATTER. 

Some on this list are convinced that ANY coaching change is ALWAYS BAD.  
The corrollary is that FIRING a coach is a particularly bad form of 
coaching change and will almost certainly have even worse consequences 
than just not renewing a coach's contract. 

Most everyone here wants to see a more competitive NU team while 
preserving the integrity of the program and the high academic standards 
of the institution.  We just don't agree on the best way to go about it. 

We now have a real world opportunity to test the "cost" of firing at a 
couple of institutions (ND and Stanford) that have high academic 
standards (yes ND has become a lottery school).  So let's see what 
happens. 

With regard to the morality of firing Willingham and DiNardo, I like you 
won't ever have the full story - so it is hard to sit in judgement.  
DiNardo in particular seemed to be making wonderful progress given were 
he started, but I don't know what expectations he set or was given when 
he went in.  Willingham is obviously a class act and took full 
responsibility for not getting the job done and accepted the 
consequences.  I think that he would look great in purple; but I don't 
have a vote, I don't have the ear of anyone who has influence, and I 
can't even depend on my wife to agree with me - so my only outlet is 
this list. 

Thanks to all for the opportunity to express myself.  <g>

Jeff










Tom Maycock wrote:

>>Some on this list would predict that each of these institutions will 
>>fall into deep recruiting and rebuilding holes and will ultimately
>>fall further behind than they would have been if they had just
>>    
>>
>allowed
>  
>
>>their current coaches to continue to make incremental improvements. 
>>
>>If, on the other hand, each of these institutions ends up making 
>>significant progress over the next three or four years (ND getting a
>>BCS bid, Stanford contending for the PC-10 championship, Indiana
>>    
>>
>going > to a  bowl game), what sort of conclusion could be drawn? 
>  
>
>>First, that a lot of people may owe the governing bodies of these 
>>institutions an apology.
>>    
>>
>
>Jeff:
>
>I think I get your point, and it's a case that could certainly be
>argued, but I don't entirely agree. I would argue that just because a
>decision produces the desired results doesn't necessarily mean that it
>was the right decision. 
>
>Suppose ND or Indiana do find significant success within the next 2 or
>3 years (or even next year) under their new coach. You can't be sure
>that the previous coaches might not have achieved the same (or even
>greater) success had they been allowed to say. The success of new
>coaches is college sports is always linked to some degree to the level
>of talent and the personalities of the players they inherit. 
>
>But there's more to it then that. I have no problem with a pro football
>coach being judged purely on the basis of on-field results. But college
>athletics should be about more than that (I know, they almost never are
>in reality...). 
>
>If all that matters to ND is winning, then they may very well be better
>of with Meyer--maybe MUCH better off. And on that basis it may be a
>very bold, and wise decision. The problem is that ND likes to pretend
>that it's about more than that. And this decision deeply undermines
>that stance IMO.
>
>And I just think the DiNardo thing was wrong with a capital W (again,
>unless there are factors going on we don't know about). His successor
>will almost *certainly* have a better record than DiNardo, because
>DiNardo was stuck rebuilt possibly the most broken college football
>team in the country. Now someone else will benefit from his hard work. 
>
>Tom
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>
>  
>


From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 13:27:22 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Thu Dec  2 13:28:33 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <41AF4F5D.5050101@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <20041202192722.66720.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>

> We now have a real world opportunity to test the "cost" of firing at
> a 
> couple of institutions (ND and Stanford) that have high academic 
> standards (yes ND has become a lottery school).  So let's see what 
> happens. 

Academics aside, there's actually a similar test case already under way
at Nebraska. The program had declined under Solich, but had rebounded
significantly last year with a new set of assistant coaches. But,
citing declining recruiting results, the AD determined the turnaround
in '03 wasn't enough to justify keeping him, and he was shown the door
after a 9-3 season. I'm sure you recall the criticism that followed.

The short term results were even uglier than most expected--first
losing season in approximately forever (longer than I've been alive).
The offense was the expected square-peg/round-hole affair all season,
but the defense also took a surprising nosedive. Questions arose about
whether the current defensive players had "bought into" the new system
and staff, etc.

I don't think there's much question in Husker land that Solich and his
staff would have produced a better record in 2004. The question is, of
course, whether the misery of the transition will be worth it. Early
reports have the Husker recruiting class ranked #1 in the country. 

Tom

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Thu Dec  2 15:10:25 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Thu Dec  2 15:17:38 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <41AF4F5D.5050101@hilgraeve.com>
References: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
	<41AF4F5D.5050101@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <52124.66.170.160.190.1102021825.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

 > Actually I think that we are on the same page here.

Yeah - just look at Ty -- he had a great record his first year and folks
were ready to annoint him the ND football savior.:)

But yes, it's gonna be real interesting to watch all these schools -- who
they go after, who they settle for and what that person does in the next
few years. It should be fun. The Trib had a great back page
graphic/article today on all the openings, who's up for 'em, what
expectations are, status of the program, etc.

> Some on this list are convinced that ANY coaching change is ALWAYS BAD.

I don't think I've seen anybody say that. And if that is intended to mean
me, then I certainly never said it. I do think firing a coach because he
only won 6 when we have unreasonable expectations to win 9 is bad. And in
that case, we can look at a few schools in the next few years ...

- As mentioned, Nebraska fired a coach with 9 wins. They wanted more --
year one was a disaster, but we'll see what the next few years of change
brings as the Huskers try and go Oklahoma's route ... suffer for awhile,
then change and move in the modern era.

- Florida fired a coach who had brought in top classes and won 7 games
this year with a predominantly underclass team. The SEC has passed the
Gators by and if Spurrier catches fire in Columbia, Florida may be looking
up at UGa, Rocky Top and the Gamecocks from the lower division of the SEC
east.

- And yes, Notre Dame, fired a coach three years into a rebuilding project
that wasn't going fast enough ... amid dellusions of past grandeur that
many don't feel still exist in the new era of college football.

Those three coaching changes I'd say were cases of "greedy firings" in
that the staffs were doing well, but not well enough with what many could
argue are unrealistically high expectations ... it will be fun to see
whether they pay off.

It will also be interesting to watch Illinois and Indiana simply because
they are conference foes whose programs the last decade or so have been
pretty much at or below NU's level (plus, the DiNardo firing was
especially bogus) ... will they just continue a cycle of frustration and
start rebuilding from square 1 or 2 again while their students look
forward to hoops season ... or can they turn it around quickly (ala
Purdue) and (then the tricky part) get that miracle worker coach to stick
around and see it through? (something we couldn't do with Barnett).

> Most everyone here wants to see a more competitive NU team while
> preserving the integrity of the program and the high academic standards
> of the institution.  We just don't agree on the best way to go about it.

We'll agree on that -- plus, you mention the contract and right now we're
in the middle of a contract. So we'll have a couple years to watch the
results elsewhere and see how they apply to Northwestern. But I think we
all can agree that we don't want NU to become one of those schools that
axes a coach mid-contract even if they do everything right "Sunday through
Friday."

The other interesting one to watch, of course, will be Stanford. Ty took
'em to their first Rose Bowl in decades (kind of like us in 1995 except we
got Dennis Green among the frustrated past coaches instead of Bill Walsh:)
) ... can they rebound in a more competitive Pac 10 (the Pac Northwest
schools are solid now ... USC and Cal have awoken from hibernation ... and
keep an eye on Stoops the Second down in Tuscon)?

> consequences.  I think that he would look great in purple; but I don't
> have a vote, I don't have the ear of anyone who has influence, and I
> can't even depend on my wife to agree with me - so my only outlet is
> this list.

Hah.:) Well, that's what makes this list great -- we can cover, and
disagree, on a number of topics to keep us busy in the offseason. If I
didn't feel strongly about axing coaches mid-contract who have completed
back-to-back 6-win seasons, I'd be awfully tempted to go after Willingham
as well.

But you're right -- this is going to be a real interesting next few years
to watch. There certainly seem to be more firings now than I can remember
in other years ... and if Meyer, BSU's coach, and others are picked for
some of these jobs, there will be more openings (and don't forget that
Utah is a pretty attractive job now -- they've done the impossible with
the BCS, they've renovated facilities, have a competitive NC schedule to
make waves nationally ... and Mr. Chow lives in Salt Lake City, so the
Utes may still be around even if Meyer bolts for the THIRD time in four
years).

Just a quick look at the Big Ten coaching positions ...

MINNESOTA - Mason was pretty obviously campaigning for OSU a few years
back, now it appears he's stuck in Siberia, er, Minneapolis until they
either get a new stadium or get sick of 6-5 seasons and minor bowls.

IOWA - Despite the rumors, I think Ferentz is gonna be a pain in our butts
for a loooong time in Iowa City. They're upgrading facilities, have a
solid tradition and program and are only getting better recruits each
year. After his kids are out of school, perhaps he'll bolt for the pros,
but he'd be a fool to ... he's a college coach and could be a legend
bigger than Hayden by the time he's done.

WISCONSIN - Barry's got a year or two left until he hands it off to his
hand-picked successor. No real shocking changes on the horizon there.

ILLINOIS - Open!

INDIANA - Open!

PURDUE - I thought for sure Tiller would have bolted by now ... but he's
sticking around and doing a solid job in West Lafayette. They're upgrading
facilities as well and starting to be a consistent threat to battle for
the league title. I don't see Wily Joe leaving anytime soon.

MICHIGAN STATE - They stumbled upon a pretty good one in John L. Smith
after a few years of rotation following Perles ... Smith's already made
his move and should be in Spartan green for a few more years at least. If
he can take the program out of the shadow of Big Blue (and he's done
wonders with a patchwork of players his first two years - think of what
he'll do with his own recruits), he may bolt higher in 5-6 years.

MICHIGAN - If Carr is about to step down, I'd think Michigan will be like
Wisconsin and promote from within the family. If it does become open, it
is one of the 2-3 most attractive positions in the nation. But I think
this one won't be up for grabs like ND or Florida this year ... Carr won't
leave until he wants to, and when he does, he'll have a successor lined
up.

OHIO STATE - If Tressel survives the scandal, he'll be in Columbus for a
long time. This was the job he wanted and despite the headaches, it's one
of the elite jobs. Plus, the guy's a heck of a coach -- and as long as he
keeps beating Michigan, he won't be under any alumni pressure for awhile.
If the scandal does grow, though, this could be one of those wide-open
coaching scrambles because they'd want to clean house to clean up the
image.

PENN STATE - The one position everyone thought would be up for grabs isn't
... yet. I think JoePa knows his D will be something special next year and
wants one more season (asking Santa for a halfway decent offense) so he
can go out on top. In any case, he's gotta line up a successor to take
over the program or else this job could slip into disarray. Still - you
have one of the nation's largest stadiums, loyal alumni, great tradition,
a football-crazy state and a recruiting pipeline nationwide ... if this
one does open up, there will be some good candidates looking into it and
someone could really awaken a sleeping giant in Happy Valley.

NORTHWESTERN - Well, we can leave that for the list to decide.:) Some of
us see progress, others want more ... in the next year or two and with
watching what happens in South Bend, Lincoln, Palo Alto and elsewhere, we
may have our answer.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Thu Dec  2 17:02:04 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Thu Dec  2 17:07:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <20041202192722.66720.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041202192722.66720.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41AF9EEC.1030602@hilgraeve.com>

The other NU is an interesting case, but the difference in admissions 
standards probably introduces enough variability that when they do 
return to national prominence any comparison to our NU will be called 
into question. 

There are others on this list who know a whole lot more about Husker 
football than I do, but I don't think that Solich was going to be the 
long-term guy.  Looking at the sorts of high-powered offenses that 
Nebraska has to play every year, I don't know if the option-based attack 
that had served them so well for so many years was going to continue to 
effective in the future.  Though it took some courage, they chose to 
blow it all up and start over rather than make incremental changes.  So 
it isn't surprising that they struggled this year with kids who didn't 
fit the new system. 

The other issue is that they are looking to recruit the top athletes in 
the country.  Those kids have a lot of choices.  They are all thinking 
about playing on Sundays.  Particularly the skill position kids want 
programs that will showcase their talent and best prepare them for the 
transition to the NFL.  What better choice than to bring in an NFL coach 
with the expectation of running an NFL farm team.  So I'm not at all 
surprised that Callahan has a great recruiting class.  All of those kids 
are going to get a chance to play early.  They are going to NFL prep 
school, and they will be the first graduating class in a new chapter of 
NU history. 

Whether or not this is good in the larger context of college football is 
another discussion. But I have no doubt that Callahan will have a 
competitive team on the field sooner rather than later.

Jeff


Tom Maycock wrote:

>>We now have a real world opportunity to test the "cost" of firing at
>>a 
>>couple of institutions (ND and Stanford) that have high academic 
>>standards (yes ND has become a lottery school).  So let's see what 
>>happens. 
>>    
>>
>
>Academics aside, there's actually a similar test case already under way
>at Nebraska. The program had declined under Solich, but had rebounded
>significantly last year with a new set of assistant coaches. But,
>citing declining recruiting results, the AD determined the turnaround
>in '03 wasn't enough to justify keeping him, and he was shown the door
>after a 9-3 season. I'm sure you recall the criticism that followed.
>
>The short term results were even uglier than most expected--first
>losing season in approximately forever (longer than I've been alive).
>The offense was the expected square-peg/round-hole affair all season,
>but the defense also took a surprising nosedive. Questions arose about
>whether the current defensive players had "bought into" the new system
>and staff, etc.
>
>I don't think there's much question in Husker land that Solich and his
>staff would have produced a better record in 2004. The question is, of
>course, whether the misery of the transition will be worth it. Early
>reports have the Husker recruiting class ranked #1 in the country. 
>
>Tom
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>
>  
>


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  2 17:47:33 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  2 17:50:54 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <52124.66.170.160.190.1102021825.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
Message-ID: <000601c4d8c9$4bbbee10$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

I wonder what all the virulence on the various boards that are read by the
recruits is doing to dissuade some of the top players from considering NU this
year?

You know that some of the top players in Illinois who were not being recruited
nationally, were carefully weighing NU vs. IL and leaning towards NU because we
were a given. The same thing with Indiana's recruits.

But to read some of the message boards, you'd think that Randy Walker was an
absolute ogre, totally incompetent, a fool, a loser, stupid, and a whole bunch
of names that I care not to repeat.

I don't know what Coach Walker ever did to some of these [or you] guys, but the
only other place I've seen this much hate has been in the last two presidential
elections.

C'mon people, get a life!

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of sjtruog@jorsm.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:10 PM
> To: Jeff Beamsley
> Cc: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Football experiment
> 
> 
>  > Actually I think that we are on the same page here.
> 
> Yeah - just look at Ty -- he had a great record his first 
> year and folks were ready to annoint him the ND football savior.:)
> 
> But yes, it's gonna be real interesting to watch all these 
> schools -- who they go after, who they settle for and what 
> that person does in the next few years. It should be fun. The 
> Trib had a great back page graphic/article today on all the 
> openings, who's up for 'em, what expectations are, status of 
> the program, etc.
> 
> > Some on this list are convinced that ANY coaching change is ALWAYS 
> > BAD.
> 
> I don't think I've seen anybody say that. And if that is 
> intended to mean me, then I certainly never said it. I do 
> think firing a coach because he only won 6 when we have 
> unreasonable expectations to win 9 is bad. And in that case, 
> we can look at a few schools in the next few years ...
> 
> - As mentioned, Nebraska fired a coach with 9 wins. They 
> wanted more -- year one was a disaster, but we'll see what 
> the next few years of change brings as the Huskers try and go 
> Oklahoma's route ... suffer for awhile, then change and move 
> in the modern era.
> 
> - Florida fired a coach who had brought in top classes and 
> won 7 games this year with a predominantly underclass team. 
> The SEC has passed the Gators by and if Spurrier catches fire 
> in Columbia, Florida may be looking up at UGa, Rocky Top and 
> the Gamecocks from the lower division of the SEC east.
> 
> - And yes, Notre Dame, fired a coach three years into a 
> rebuilding project that wasn't going fast enough ... amid 
> dellusions of past grandeur that many don't feel still exist 
> in the new era of college football.
> 
> Those three coaching changes I'd say were cases of "greedy 
> firings" in that the staffs were doing well, but not well 
> enough with what many could argue are unrealistically high 
> expectations ... it will be fun to see whether they pay off.
> 
> It will also be interesting to watch Illinois and Indiana 
> simply because they are conference foes whose programs the 
> last decade or so have been pretty much at or below NU's 
> level (plus, the DiNardo firing was especially bogus) ... 
> will they just continue a cycle of frustration and start 
> rebuilding from square 1 or 2 again while their students look 
> forward to hoops season ... or can they turn it around quickly (ala
> Purdue) and (then the tricky part) get that miracle worker 
> coach to stick around and see it through? (something we 
> couldn't do with Barnett).
> 
> > Most everyone here wants to see a more competitive NU team while 
> > preserving the integrity of the program and the high academic 
> > standards of the institution.  We just don't agree on the 
> best way to 
> > go about it.
> 
> We'll agree on that -- plus, you mention the contract and 
> right now we're in the middle of a contract. So we'll have a 
> couple years to watch the results elsewhere and see how they 
> apply to Northwestern. But I think we all can agree that we 
> don't want NU to become one of those schools that axes a 
> coach mid-contract even if they do everything right "Sunday 
> through Friday."
> 
> The other interesting one to watch, of course, will be 
> Stanford. Ty took 'em to their first Rose Bowl in decades 
> (kind of like us in 1995 except we got Dennis Green among the 
> frustrated past coaches instead of Bill Walsh:)
> ) ... can they rebound in a more competitive Pac 10 (the Pac 
> Northwest schools are solid now ... USC and Cal have awoken 
> from hibernation ... and keep an eye on Stoops the Second 
> down in Tuscon)?
> 
> > consequences.  I think that he would look great in purple; 
> but I don't 
> > have a vote, I don't have the ear of anyone who has 
> influence, and I 
> > can't even depend on my wife to agree with me - so my only 
> outlet is 
> > this list.
> 
> Hah.:) Well, that's what makes this list great -- we can 
> cover, and disagree, on a number of topics to keep us busy in 
> the offseason. If I didn't feel strongly about axing coaches 
> mid-contract who have completed back-to-back 6-win seasons, 
> I'd be awfully tempted to go after Willingham as well.
> 
> But you're right -- this is going to be a real interesting 
> next few years to watch. There certainly seem to be more 
> firings now than I can remember in other years ... and if 
> Meyer, BSU's coach, and others are picked for some of these 
> jobs, there will be more openings (and don't forget that Utah 
> is a pretty attractive job now -- they've done the impossible 
> with the BCS, they've renovated facilities, have a 
> competitive NC schedule to make waves nationally ... and Mr. 
> Chow lives in Salt Lake City, so the Utes may still be around 
> even if Meyer bolts for the THIRD time in four years).
> 
> Just a quick look at the Big Ten coaching positions ...
> 
> MINNESOTA - Mason was pretty obviously campaigning for OSU a 
> few years back, now it appears he's stuck in Siberia, er, 
> Minneapolis until they either get a new stadium or get sick 
> of 6-5 seasons and minor bowls.
> 
> IOWA - Despite the rumors, I think Ferentz is gonna be a pain 
> in our butts for a loooong time in Iowa City. They're 
> upgrading facilities, have a solid tradition and program and 
> are only getting better recruits each year. After his kids 
> are out of school, perhaps he'll bolt for the pros, but he'd 
> be a fool to ... he's a college coach and could be a legend 
> bigger than Hayden by the time he's done.
> 
> WISCONSIN - Barry's got a year or two left until he hands it 
> off to his hand-picked successor. No real shocking changes on 
> the horizon there.
> 
> ILLINOIS - Open!
> 
> INDIANA - Open!
> 
> PURDUE - I thought for sure Tiller would have bolted by now 
> ... but he's sticking around and doing a solid job in West 
> Lafayette. They're upgrading facilities as well and starting 
> to be a consistent threat to battle for the league title. I 
> don't see Wily Joe leaving anytime soon.
> 
> MICHIGAN STATE - They stumbled upon a pretty good one in John 
> L. Smith after a few years of rotation following Perles ... 
> Smith's already made his move and should be in Spartan green 
> for a few more years at least. If he can take the program out 
> of the shadow of Big Blue (and he's done wonders with a 
> patchwork of players his first two years - think of what 
> he'll do with his own recruits), he may bolt higher in 5-6 years.
> 
> MICHIGAN - If Carr is about to step down, I'd think Michigan 
> will be like Wisconsin and promote from within the family. If 
> it does become open, it is one of the 2-3 most attractive 
> positions in the nation. But I think this one won't be up for 
> grabs like ND or Florida this year ... Carr won't leave until 
> he wants to, and when he does, he'll have a successor lined up.
> 
> OHIO STATE - If Tressel survives the scandal, he'll be in 
> Columbus for a long time. This was the job he wanted and 
> despite the headaches, it's one of the elite jobs. Plus, the 
> guy's a heck of a coach -- and as long as he keeps beating 
> Michigan, he won't be under any alumni pressure for awhile. 
> If the scandal does grow, though, this could be one of those 
> wide-open coaching scrambles because they'd want to clean 
> house to clean up the image.
> 
> PENN STATE - The one position everyone thought would be up 
> for grabs isn't ... yet. I think JoePa knows his D will be 
> something special next year and wants one more season (asking 
> Santa for a halfway decent offense) so he can go out on top. 
> In any case, he's gotta line up a successor to take over the 
> program or else this job could slip into disarray. Still - 
> you have one of the nation's largest stadiums, loyal alumni, 
> great tradition, a football-crazy state and a recruiting 
> pipeline nationwide ... if this one does open up, there will 
> be some good candidates looking into it and someone could 
> really awaken a sleeping giant in Happy Valley.
> 
> NORTHWESTERN - Well, we can leave that for the list to 
> decide.:) Some of us see progress, others want more ... in 
> the next year or two and with watching what happens in South 
> Bend, Lincoln, Palo Alto and elsewhere, we may have our answer.
> 
> GO CATS!!!
> -SjT
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  2 18:52:52 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  2 18:56:09 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <41AF9EEC.1030602@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <000301c4d8d2$6bb6f260$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

What you had in Nebraska was a situation similar to Delaware in that everyone in
the state ran the same offense that the "major" college ran and kids who weren't
offered scholarships would just show up in Lincoln and walk-on.

Now High School coaches are also trying to win, and they work out their offenses
to match personnel, instead of just running the same old playbook every year.

UN-L is also trying to regain their dominance in a conference [Big 12] that now
has several good teams.

Like the Big 10, which used to be the "Big 2 and little 8," the Big 12 now has 6
or more teams that are capable of making a run at the title. Any conference
where the coach could almost be fired for malfeasance, yet wind up the Coach of
the Year and playing in the title game, has turned the corner in balance, even
if the two top teams aren't happy anymore.

Some schools, like dOSU still have their pick of prospects, and can even fill in
with Walk-ons, but the days of finding a Heisman Candidate RB Walk-on are fast
fading.

Go Cats

rsl 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:02 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Football experiment
> 
> 
> The other NU is an interesting case, but the difference in admissions 
> standards probably introduces enough variability that when they do 
> return to national prominence any comparison to our NU will be called 
> into question. 
> 
> There are others on this list who know a whole lot more about Husker 
> football than I do, but I don't think that Solich was going to be the 
> long-term guy.  Looking at the sorts of high-powered offenses that 
> Nebraska has to play every year, I don't know if the 
> option-based attack 
> that had served them so well for so many years was going to 
> continue to 
> effective in the future.  Though it took some courage, they chose to 
> blow it all up and start over rather than make incremental 
> changes.  So 
> it isn't surprising that they struggled this year with kids 
> who didn't 
> fit the new system. 
> 
> The other issue is that they are looking to recruit the top 
> athletes in 
> the country.  Those kids have a lot of choices.  They are all 
> thinking 
> about playing on Sundays.  Particularly the skill position kids want 
> programs that will showcase their talent and best prepare 
> them for the 
> transition to the NFL.  What better choice than to bring in 
> an NFL coach 
> with the expectation of running an NFL farm team.  So I'm not at all 
> surprised that Callahan has a great recruiting class.  All of 
> those kids 
> are going to get a chance to play early.  They are going to NFL prep 
> school, and they will be the first graduating class in a new 
> chapter of 
> NU history. 
> 
> Whether or not this is good in the larger context of college 
> football is 
> another discussion. But I have no doubt that Callahan will have a 
> competitive team on the field sooner rather than later.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Tom Maycock wrote:
> 
> >>We now have a real world opportunity to test the "cost" of 
> firing at a
> >>couple of institutions (ND and Stanford) that have high academic 
> >>standards (yes ND has become a lottery school).  So let's see what 
> >>happens. 
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Academics aside, there's actually a similar test case 
> already under way
> >at Nebraska. The program had declined under Solich, but had rebounded
> >significantly last year with a new set of assistant coaches. But,
> >citing declining recruiting results, the AD determined the turnaround
> >in '03 wasn't enough to justify keeping him, and he was 
> shown the door
> >after a 9-3 season. I'm sure you recall the criticism that followed.
> >
> >The short term results were even uglier than most expected--first
> >losing season in approximately forever (longer than I've been alive).
> >The offense was the expected square-peg/round-hole affair all season,
> >but the defense also took a surprising nosedive. Questions 
> arose about
> >whether the current defensive players had "bought into" the 
> new system
> >and staff, etc.
> >
> >I don't think there's much question in Husker land that 
> Solich and his
> >staff would have produced a better record in 2004. The 
> question is, of
> >course, whether the misery of the transition will be worth it. Early
> >reports have the Husker recruiting class ranked #1 in the country. 
> >
> >Tom
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nwu-sports site list
> >nwu-sports@tssi.com
> >http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From michael.vance at att.net  Thu Dec  2 21:48:20 2004
From: michael.vance at att.net (Michael Vance)
Date: Thu Dec  2 21:49:11 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <41AE85F0.2060108@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041202222311.03c6ee58@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 12/2/2004 10:37 AM, Tom wrote:
>And I just think the DiNardo thing was wrong with a capital W (again,
>unless there are factors going on we don't know about). His successor
>will almost *certainly* have a better record than DiNardo, because
>DiNardo was stuck rebuilt possibly the most broken college football
>team in the country. Now someone else will benefit from his hard work.

There's really only one explanation for DiNardo: The new AD at IU, Rick 
Greenspan, just flat-out didn't like him.  Whether it extended to being 
personal or was strictly professional and philosphical, the bottom line is 
that he didn't impress his new boss.  According to the Indy Star this 
morning, the two of them had met three times since the Bucket game, 
including once for five hours (!).  Then when Greenspan called DiNardo 
Tuesday night to set up a Wednesday morning meeting, and DiNardo asked 
about the agenda, he was told that it was for him to be fired.  This was 
nothing more than an intense personality or philosophy conflict.

Among other things, DiNardo had gone to great lengths to build 
relationships with Indiana high schools.  In his first year on the job, he 
personally visited every single high school football coach in the 
state.  He figured that if he couldn't recruit in-state that no one was 
ever going to care about IU football again.

Interestingly enough, Bob Kravitz points out in his column 
(http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/199111-9466-036.html) that Mike Davis 
had better improve things this season or he probably faces a similar 
fate.  Davis claims that he has a great relationship with Greenspan, 
pointing out as evidence that he has met with him at length numerous times, 
which apparently IU's previous ADs did not do.  (No wonder their athletic 
department, or at least their revenue sports, is in a shambles; how many of 
us are in jobs where we "never" meet with our direct boss?)  Maybe Davis 
needs to read the part about DiNardo and Greenspan meeting a lot, too.  :-)


Michael, CAS '91
mailto:michael@vance.com

From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Thu Dec  2 22:13:38 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Thu Dec  2 22:14:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200412030414.iB34EQZE015077@gw.tssi.com>

Tom,
I think you have just hit what seems to upset so many people outside the ND
orbit.  For too long, the Domers have claimed to be something different,
something unique in college football, but by this action they have
demonstrated that they really are just like everyone else.  If Willingham
was doing everything right Sunday through Friday but not winning enough on
Saturday, then this is clearly only about winning. In fact, Kevin White went
out of his way to say that the team's graduation rate had never been higher.
A bit hypocritical don't you think.

IU is an entirely different matter.  I doubt that DiNardo was going to turn
things around.  I doubt that his successor, unless he walks on water, will
either.  That is, unless the administration is willing to throw considerable
sums of money into football. Something no IU administrator has ever shown a
willingness to do before now.

Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 


If all that matters to ND is winning, then they may very well be better
of with Meyer--maybe MUCH better off. And on that basis it may be a
very bold, and wise decision. The problem is that ND likes to pretend
that it's about more than that. And this decision deeply undermines
that stance IMO.

And I just think the DiNardo thing was wrong with a capital W (again,
unless there are factors going on we don't know about). His successor
will almost *certainly* have a better record than DiNardo, because
DiNardo was stuck rebuilt possibly the most broken college football
team in the country. Now someone else will benefit from his hard work. 

Tom

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec  3 07:06:58 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec  3 07:10:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] How about some good recruiting news? 
Message-ID: <000801c4d938$f917a990$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Tyrell Sutton, of Archbishop Hoban HS in Akron was named Ohio Mr. Football
Wednesday.

He is expected to join another former Mr. Football, Jeff Backes at NU next
Summer.

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Fri Dec  3 08:28:49 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Fri Dec  3 08:33:52 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <000601c4d8c9$4bbbee10$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
References: <000601c4d8c9$4bbbee10$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <41B07821.8020501@hilgraeve.com>

Roy,

You can't be serious.

I'm starting to believe that perhaps the cold weather may have brought 
on a bout of conservative intolerance.

We can't express our opinions anymore because it's somehow going to 
damage recruiting?

A lot of the feedback that I've received privately about Randy Walker 
has come FROM the parents of kids that he was recruiting.  The opinions 
they have formed have come FROM the parents of some of kids that ARE 
PLAYING for Randy Walker.  If you are really concerned about somehow 
sugar coating the Randy Walker experience, there is a much bigger leak 
in the dam than our piddly little list (no offense intended Mike). 

Personally I find it hard to believe that there can ever be too much 
information (at least when kids are trying to make a college choice).

If they are really interested, they should find out all that they can, 
sift the fact from the fantasy, and make a decision weighing the pros 
and cons.  From what little exposure that I've had to parents of 
potential recruits, this is exactly what they are doing.  The worst 
situation for both the kid and NU, IMHO, is a kid who hasn't done their 
homework and finds that RW's sort of program isn't a good fit for them.

Jeff




Roy S. Lamberton wrote:

>I wonder what all the virulence on the various boards that are read by the
>recruits is doing to dissuade some of the top players from considering NU this
>year?
>
>You know that some of the top players in Illinois who were not being recruited
>nationally, were carefully weighing NU vs. IL and leaning towards NU because we
>were a given. The same thing with Indiana's recruits.
>
>But to read some of the message boards, you'd think that Randy Walker was an
>absolute ogre, totally incompetent, a fool, a loser, stupid, and a whole bunch
>of names that I care not to repeat.
>
>I don't know what Coach Walker ever did to some of these [or you] guys, but the
>only other place I've seen this much hate has been in the last two presidential
>elections.
>
>C'mon people, get a life!
>
>Go Cats
>
>rsl
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
>Computer Applications & Support Associates
>and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
>The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
>(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
>AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
>
>=========================================
>No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
>itself to prosperity...Think about it.
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
>  
>


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Fri Dec  3 08:55:46 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Fri Dec  3 09:00:46 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <52124.66.170.160.190.1102021825.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
References: <20041202153715.54006.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
	<41AF4F5D.5050101@hilgraeve.com>
	<52124.66.170.160.190.1102021825.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
Message-ID: <41B07E72.8000806@hilgraeve.com>

Stephen,

Thanks for your post!

I knew if we chewed on this bone long enough we'd find a part that we 
both thought tasted good. <g>

>We'll agree on that -- plus, you mention the contract and right now we're
>in the middle of a contract. So we'll have a couple years to watch the
>results elsewhere and see how they apply to Northwestern. But I think we
>all can agree that we don't want NU to become one of those schools that
>axes a coach mid-contract even if they do everything right "Sunday through
>Friday."
>  
>
BUT

I don't agree with you that a contract is or should be protection for a 
coach against poor performace (Saturdays and/or the rest of the week).  
Coaches, like many of us, are "at will" employees and can be fired at 
any time.  I'm certain that RW's contract (like mine) has pages which 
cover what happens to him if his contract is terminated before it 
expires.   Those pages are there and often consume a lot of negotiation 
time because BOTH PARTIES realize they often get used.

The flip side is being played out right now in the Urban Meyer 
situation.  He is likely to opt out of his contract because some 
opportunities developed faster than he originally anticipated when he 
signed with the Utes.  The folks at Utah knew they were taking a risk 
when they gave him the "out" clauses that they agreed to.  He did a 
great job for them and now they are finding out that there may be a cost 
to the risk that they took. .

We don't currently agree on the issue of RW's performance, but honestly 
I believe that it is moot.  RW isn't going to fired regardless of who is 
available on the coaching horizon.  Also I don't think that he will be a 
serious candidate for any of the current crop of openings.  If NU had 
won in Hawaii and was going to the Music City Bowl, that might have been 
a different story.  But there are so many more interesting things to 
speculate about in the future, that it seems hardly worth the time to 
wonder what could have happened in the past.

So what remains is the set of experiments that we both agree are 
interesting and can provide some real world data on what the real costs 
are of firing a coach before his contract expires.  Happy you are 
interested in keeping track.

Thanks also for the nice analysis of the current BT coaching situation.  
I agree that Tressel can only be removed by scandal and Carr is only 
going to leave when succession is well established.  If we assume that 
they are both going to be in place for the next three or four years, and 
it is obvious that they both have young talented backfields that are 
only going to get better, my new question to the group is when are we 
going to see another NU BT championship?

Asked in another way, what does NU have to do differently next year to 
beat Mich (we have them at home) AND will NU be able to beat OSU again 
next year in Columbus?  We will have to do at least one of those two 
things and most likely both if we hope to be BT champs in any of the 
upcoming years (at least until OSU goes off the schedule again).

Jeff


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Fri Dec  3 09:02:19 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Fri Dec  3 09:02:21 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412031502.iB3F2JA9005152@romaine.tssi.com>

> We can't express our opinions anymore because it's somehow going to 
> damage recruiting?

While a number of schools have raised concerns about what is being
said about recruits on the Internet, I do not know of a single case
in which it can be reliably said that those comments actually affected 
the recruit's decision.

Let's face it, recruits likely to be on NU's wish list are probably
going to be more net-aware than we are.

Hopefully they learned a long time ago that not everbody on the net
will say nice things about them, for whatever reasons.  And the
fans of other schools will be just as bad, if not worse, so I suspect
any negative impressions they get of schools will cancel each other out.

If they think what they're hearing now is bad, wait until the fans at 
their chosen school start projecting their overwrought expectations onto 
those players' on-the-field performance!  

What's said here is very tame compared to some other online forums
and usually better written and more analytical, too.

(I was browsing a few N*D* forums the other day, there's a LOT of 
shouting going on there, and much of it isn't very polite.)
--
Mike Nolan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec  3 09:22:02 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec  3 09:25:17 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <41B07821.8020501@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c4d94b$d75e90d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

We'd have to get into a discussion of whether the attitudes about RW that the
parents have developed came from their kids reactions to the boards, or if the
negative attitudes on the boards actually reflect the actual attitudes of those
parents.

When I was in broadcasting, we had to do something called ascertainment - it was
a requirement to go out and talk to "community leaders" whatever they were and
find out what they were concerned about.

I eventually determined that in a small town, those leaders usually were
concerned about whatever the local newspaper and radio station had on their
news! It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

My point is that when you have a few guys anonymously pounding the coaches on
the internet boards, people get a one sided impression of how a coach operates,
etc. and that impression carries over into the face to face meetings. 

If you're a prospect and all you hear, besides the nice letters you get from NU,
is that Randy lies to prospects, is a dunderhead, dolt, idiot, and his coaches
are incompetent fools, why would you even consider playing in Evanston
regardless of the education.

The problem is that too many of our "fans" are taking one event in one game, and
drawing a conclusion that fits their personal agenda.

I've actually started watching NU games a lot more closely this year, and I can
see what the coaches are trying to do on both offense and defense, without
getting an e-mail before the game explaining the game plan. Its hard to see all
of what's happening - TV zooms into the ball to quickly, but you can get a sense
of what's happening.

All season when we lost, we were usually beaten by the athleticism of the other
team. No game plan can 100% account for that.

Maybe I'll have to start charting the games next year and show what actually
happens.

Anyway, NU is both blessed and cursed by the most literate football and
basketball fans around. We are also cursed and blessed by an emerging fanaticism
that is finally demanding excellence from both our academics and athletics. But
there's already some guy on another board pushing for the firing of Bill Carmody
RIGHT NOW! Come on folks, get real.

The problem, as I see it, is that we've taken a few firings of coaches who
failed at other colleges, and tried to make a case for the removal of our
coaches mid contract, in hopes of luring one of these coaches to Northwestern.

I don't want somebody else's loser, and I don't want some up and comer, who
intends to leave in 2 or 3 [or 4] years. After Alex Agase left to Gary Barnett
hiring, we had a period of the "new age" of coaches and it didn't work! Some
folks may not like the present coaching staff, nobody ever has 100% support, but
NU is coming off a season where we broke new ground, built on the future, and is
already attracting a decent recruiting class.

Personally, in my opinion, that's not grounds for removal.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:29 AM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Football experiment
> 
> 
> Roy,
> 
> You can't be serious.
> 
> I'm starting to believe that perhaps the cold weather may 
> have brought 
> on a bout of conservative intolerance.
> 
> We can't express our opinions anymore because it's somehow going to 
> damage recruiting?
> 
> A lot of the feedback that I've received privately about Randy Walker 
> has come FROM the parents of kids that he was recruiting.  
> The opinions 
> they have formed have come FROM the parents of some of kids that ARE 
> PLAYING for Randy Walker.  If you are really concerned about somehow 
> sugar coating the Randy Walker experience, there is a much 
> bigger leak 
> in the dam than our piddly little list (no offense intended Mike). 
> 
> Personally I find it hard to believe that there can ever be too much 
> information (at least when kids are trying to make a college choice).
> 
> If they are really interested, they should find out all that 
> they can, 
> sift the fact from the fantasy, and make a decision weighing the pros 
> and cons.  From what little exposure that I've had to parents of 
> potential recruits, this is exactly what they are doing.  The worst 
> situation for both the kid and NU, IMHO, is a kid who hasn't 
> done their 
> homework and finds that RW's sort of program isn't a good fit 
> for them.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roy S. Lamberton wrote:
> 
> >I wonder what all the virulence on the various boards that 
> are read by 
> >the recruits is doing to dissuade some of the top players from 
> >considering NU this year?
> >
> >You know that some of the top players in Illinois who were not being 
> >recruited nationally, were carefully weighing NU vs. IL and leaning 
> >towards NU because we were a given. The same thing with Indiana's 
> >recruits.
> >
> >But to read some of the message boards, you'd think that 
> Randy Walker 
> >was an absolute ogre, totally incompetent, a fool, a loser, 
> stupid, and 
> >a whole bunch of names that I care not to repeat.
> >
> >I don't know what Coach Walker ever did to some of these [or 
> you] guys, 
> >but the only other place I've seen this much hate has been 
> in the last 
> >two presidential elections.
> >
> >C'mon people, get a life!
> >
> >Go Cats
> >
> >rsl
> >
> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
> >Computer Applications & Support Associates
> >and Publisher of Purple Reign,
> >The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
> >(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
> >AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
> >
> >=========================================
> >No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
> >itself to prosperity...Think about it.
> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec  3 10:09:18 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec  3 10:12:39 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/5
Message-ID: <001101c4d952$72d8c110$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Friday Edition **
Another Mr. Football for Football. Its off to Houston for Women's Basketball,
the Men trying to figure out what's wrong. Lots of commentary about Football and
The Midlands Wrestling tournament is getting 
closer.


                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     SAAC Holiday Food Drive Is Underway
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120204aaa.html 
     Update from USA Today
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/northwestern.htm 

Commentary:

     Worth Repeating...
     Skip Myslenski: Another kind of challenge
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/northwestern/cs-041128mys
lenski,1,1194989.column?coll=cs-college-nwestern-print 

Looking Ahead:

     Chicago State
     We play them tomorrow

     De Paul
     Latest Cumulative Stats
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/scores/mbbstats120204.HTM 

     Seton Hall
     Whitney Leads Men's Basketball Past Monmouth, 70-50
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2351 

     Arizona State
     Season Statistics
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2004-2005/teamstat.h
tml 

     Robert Morris
     Men's Basketball Opens Northeast Conference Play Saturday vs. Quinnipiac
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60509&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7081&inws_seqno=6442&ihide_header=0 

     Delaware State
     Valiant Hornets fall to Marquette
      http://www.dsc.edu/athletics/index.php?action=fullnews&id=100 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Just what we need, they just knocked off Purdue
     Lady Cougars Return To Action Against Northwestern
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/hou/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/120204aaa.html 
     + Lady Cougars Pull Off Major Road Win Against #14 Purdue
      http://uhcougars.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/113004aaa.html 

FOOTBALL

     Its all talk and recruiting now...

Commentary:

     SjT's Doing the Coaching Suffle
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/325656.html 
     Cronin: Irish coaching candidates beware: Alumni have added some muscle
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/031sd6.htm 
     Benson: Inconsistent play both on Saturday and throughout the year brought
the NU season to an early end.
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/gbe120104.html 
     Bobak:  The Malcontent
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/gb120104.html 
     Tormey: Three & Out
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/ft120104.html 

[We're in Reading Week, so the Daily is done for the year]

RECRUITING

     could the Irish become a force in Chicago again?
     Recruiting key to Notre Dame's return to glory
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cruit03.html 

     Ty Harangody: In good hands with All-Staters - Harangody second-guesses IU
choice
 
http://nwitimes.com/articles/2004/12/03/sports/top_sports/cbe2e49e474ece0486256f
5f000adbcc.txt 

     Tyrell Sutton: Career achievement
      http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/high_school/10319321.htm 
     + Tyrell Sutton named Mr. Football
 
http://www.cleveland.com/hsfootball/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/110199211
872180.xml 
     + Tyrell Sutton, Ohio's Mr. Football
      http://www.hoban.org/page.php?catid=511 
     + Tyrell's Stats
      http://www.hoban.org/page.php?catid=501 

     Eric Hedstrom: Purdue gets commitments
      http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/199307-8014-036.html 
     + Purdue picks up two commitments
 
http://www.boilerstation.com/football/stories/200412030purdue_football1102052773
.shtml 

     Ramon Diaz: Diaz earns All Conference
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=325820&nid=1473016&fhn=1 
     + Eleven Morris Redskins net spots on the All-SPCS team
 
http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16&SubSectionID=72&ArticleID
=12344&TM=35339.43 

WRESTLING

     Top-100 Ranked for Upcoming Midlands Championships
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/120204aac.html 

Miscellany

     Campaign season lasting into December
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cfb03.html 
     NCAA president urges schools to take diverse look at coaching
      http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=26716430 
     It's time for the IHSA to do something
 
http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16&SubSectionID=72&ArticleID
=12343&TM=35339.43 

Alumni

     Barry Gardner Named The Starter
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=325869&nid=1151368&fhn=1 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
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Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
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 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
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* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
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* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
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http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
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 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Fri Dec  3 10:13:05 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Fri Dec  3 10:18:03 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Football experiment
In-Reply-To: <000c01c4d94b$d75e90d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
References: <000c01c4d94b$d75e90d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <41B09091.8020606@hilgraeve.com>

Roy,

As a coach, you know that parents talk with other parents.  This is an 
age of involved parents.  I'm one too.  We want to know who the best 
teachers are.  We want to know who the best coaches are.  For better or 
worse (sometimes it is worse), we want to influence the environment our 
kids experience.

1. The opinions I've heard (both good and bad) come from parents who 
have spoken with other parents.  This isn't stuff picked up on random 
boards.  The sorts of things that I have heard (both good and bad) 
reflect specific experiences that specific players have had.  Those are 
shared parent-to-parent not to cause kids to look at other schools, but 
to make sure that families have an accurate picture of what to expect.  
For some kids (obviously) it is a good fit.  For other kids it isn't.  I 
suspect that is the case in EVERY program regardless of how active their 
Internet fan base is.

2. I am not the only person who has had this experience.  Many of you 
who are recognized in your community as NU alums probably end up having 
someone ask you from time to time about Northwestern.  Because I've 
coached so many of the kids in our small town when they were younger, I 
have the pleasure of having a relationship with both kids and parents.  
So I get to hear a little more than maybe some others.  For example, 
there is a kid who was on the NU radar screen this year who ended up 
going someplace else.  He and his family decided that it wasn't going to 
be a good fit for him, but he also got a very attractive offer from an 
Ivy league school.  I know that some of the other things that are posted 
on this board (both good and bad) come from very similar sources as 
mine.  So they shouldn't be discounted just because they may happen to 
paint a somewhat different picture of the NU football experience than 
you may want to hear.

3. It is no secret that I don't think RW is a good fit for NU.  I 
believe that the root of our competitive problems is the inability to 
attract the best of the available kids.  I believe one of the causes is 
a basic disconnect between the old-school (discipline, dominance, and 
intimidation) RW approach to football and the type of smart football kid 
that is going to find a four year scholarship to NU appealing.  On the 
other hand, the kids accepting NU offers certainly know what they are 
signing up for AND RW has delivered on his promise to get more kids into 
the NFL.

In any case, it is all moot for the moment.  RW is going to get at least 
another year to prove that his approach is one that will result in 
winning football at NU.  And we have the luxury of seeing how other 
comparable institutions deal with changing coaches.  So we can see how 
it all will sort out.

Jeff






Roy S. Lamberton wrote:

>We'd have to get into a discussion of whether the attitudes about RW that the
>parents have developed came from their kids reactions to the boards, or if the
>negative attitudes on the boards actually reflect the actual attitudes of those
>parents.
>
>When I was in broadcasting, we had to do something called ascertainment - it was
>a requirement to go out and talk to "community leaders" whatever they were and
>find out what they were concerned about.
>
>I eventually determined that in a small town, those leaders usually were
>concerned about whatever the local newspaper and radio station had on their
>news! It was a self fulfilling prophecy.
>
>My point is that when you have a few guys anonymously pounding the coaches on
>the internet boards, people get a one sided impression of how a coach operates,
>etc. and that impression carries over into the face to face meetings. 
>
>If you're a prospect and all you hear, besides the nice letters you get from NU,
>is that Randy lies to prospects, is a dunderhead, dolt, idiot, and his coaches
>are incompetent fools, why would you even consider playing in Evanston
>regardless of the education.
>
>The problem is that too many of our "fans" are taking one event in one game, and
>drawing a conclusion that fits their personal agenda.
>
>I've actually started watching NU games a lot more closely this year, and I can
>see what the coaches are trying to do on both offense and defense, without
>getting an e-mail before the game explaining the game plan. Its hard to see all
>of what's happening - TV zooms into the ball to quickly, but you can get a sense
>of what's happening.
>
>All season when we lost, we were usually beaten by the athleticism of the other
>team. No game plan can 100% account for that.
>
>Maybe I'll have to start charting the games next year and show what actually
>happens.
>
>Anyway, NU is both blessed and cursed by the most literate football and
>basketball fans around. We are also cursed and blessed by an emerging fanaticism
>that is finally demanding excellence from both our academics and athletics. But
>there's already some guy on another board pushing for the firing of Bill Carmody
>RIGHT NOW! Come on folks, get real.
>
>The problem, as I see it, is that we've taken a few firings of coaches who
>failed at other colleges, and tried to make a case for the removal of our
>coaches mid contract, in hopes of luring one of these coaches to Northwestern.
>
>I don't want somebody else's loser, and I don't want some up and comer, who
>intends to leave in 2 or 3 [or 4] years. After Alex Agase left to Gary Barnett
>hiring, we had a period of the "new age" of coaches and it didn't work! Some
>folks may not like the present coaching staff, nobody ever has 100% support, but
>NU is coming off a season where we broke new ground, built on the future, and is
>already attracting a decent recruiting class.
>
>Personally, in my opinion, that's not grounds for removal.
>
>Go Cats
>
>rsl
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
>Computer Applications & Support Associates
>and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
>The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
>(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
>AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
>
>=========================================
>No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
>itself to prosperity...Think about it.
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
>>[mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
>>Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:29 AM
>>To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
>>Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Football experiment
>>
>>
>>Roy,
>>
>>You can't be serious.
>>
>>I'm starting to believe that perhaps the cold weather may 
>>have brought 
>>on a bout of conservative intolerance.
>>
>>We can't express our opinions anymore because it's somehow going to 
>>damage recruiting?
>>
>>A lot of the feedback that I've received privately about Randy Walker 
>>has come FROM the parents of kids that he was recruiting.  
>>The opinions 
>>they have formed have come FROM the parents of some of kids that ARE 
>>PLAYING for Randy Walker.  If you are really concerned about somehow 
>>sugar coating the Randy Walker experience, there is a much 
>>bigger leak 
>>in the dam than our piddly little list (no offense intended Mike). 
>>
>>Personally I find it hard to believe that there can ever be too much 
>>information (at least when kids are trying to make a college choice).
>>
>>If they are really interested, they should find out all that 
>>they can, 
>>sift the fact from the fantasy, and make a decision weighing the pros 
>>and cons.  From what little exposure that I've had to parents of 
>>potential recruits, this is exactly what they are doing.  The worst 
>>situation for both the kid and NU, IMHO, is a kid who hasn't 
>>done their 
>>homework and finds that RW's sort of program isn't a good fit 
>>for them.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Roy S. Lamberton wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I wonder what all the virulence on the various boards that 
>>>      
>>>
>>are read by 
>>    
>>
>>>the recruits is doing to dissuade some of the top players from 
>>>considering NU this year?
>>>
>>>You know that some of the top players in Illinois who were not being 
>>>recruited nationally, were carefully weighing NU vs. IL and leaning 
>>>towards NU because we were a given. The same thing with Indiana's 
>>>recruits.
>>>
>>>But to read some of the message boards, you'd think that 
>>>      
>>>
>>Randy Walker 
>>    
>>
>>>was an absolute ogre, totally incompetent, a fool, a loser, 
>>>      
>>>
>>stupid, and 
>>    
>>
>>>a whole bunch of names that I care not to repeat.
>>>
>>>I don't know what Coach Walker ever did to some of these [or 
>>>      
>>>
>>you] guys, 
>>    
>>
>>>but the only other place I've seen this much hate has been 
>>>      
>>>
>>in the last 
>>    
>>
>>>two presidential elections.
>>>
>>>C'mon people, get a life!
>>>
>>>Go Cats
>>>
>>>rsl
>>>
>>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
>>>Computer Applications & Support Associates
>>>and Publisher of Purple Reign,
>>>The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
>>>(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
>>>AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
>>>
>>>=========================================
>>>No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
>>>itself to prosperity...Think about it.
>>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nwu-sports site list
>>nwu-sports@tssi.com 
>>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Fri Dec  3 15:28:58 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Fri Dec  3 15:29:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching News (Big 10 related)
Message-ID: <200412032128.iB3LSwxd009351@romaine.tssi.com>

Rumors are floating in Lincoln that former Husker coach Frank Solich
is interested in the Indiana and Illinois jobs.

The new AD at Indiana is reportedly the same guy who offered Solich 
the Army job shortly after Solich was fired a year ago, so he may
have the inside track there.  

More news from Lincoln:  The last coaching link to the Osborne era at
Nebraska is gone.  Turner Gill has resigned to take another position 
that has not yet been announced but is said to be a head coaching job.

ESPN is reporting that Urban Meyers has told ND no thanks and is about
to accept an offer from Florida.  I wonder when the last was that a
coach turned down Notre Dame?
--
Mike Nolan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec  3 18:30:58 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec  3 18:34:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching News (Big 10 related)
In-Reply-To: <200412032128.iB3LSwxd009351@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <001501c4d998$86ec3560$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Urban Meyer heading south sorta leaves the Irish Money guys with a taste of
ashes in their mouths?

Maybe they could hire O'Leary again?

Or Frank Solich?



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Mike Nolan
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 4:29 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching News (Big 10 related)
> 
> 
> Rumors are floating in Lincoln that former Husker coach Frank 
> Solich is interested in the Indiana and Illinois jobs.
> 
> The new AD at Indiana is reportedly the same guy who offered Solich 
> the Army job shortly after Solich was fired a year ago, so he 
> may have the inside track there.  
> 
> More news from Lincoln:  The last coaching link to the 
> Osborne era at Nebraska is gone.  Turner Gill has resigned to 
> take another position 
> that has not yet been announced but is said to be a head coaching job.
> 
> ESPN is reporting that Urban Meyers has told ND no thanks and 
> is about to accept an offer from Florida.  I wonder when the 
> last was that a coach turned down Notre Dame?
> --
> Mike Nolan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From rmrossiter at comcast.net  Fri Dec  3 17:29:22 2004
From: rmrossiter at comcast.net (Robert Rossiter)
Date: Fri Dec  3 20:30:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000801c4d98f$ebd43440$c002a8c0@rmrossiter>

Jeff:

My first post.  Indeed, parents (and potential players) do read and get impressions from what posters say and infer.

I have a problem (as should you as a graduate) with people who have not participated in the athletic process (playing at NU as a scholarship athlete) with negative comments regarding the whole athletic process.  Either buy your tickets and support the program(s) or go on the rant board and offer your comments---judgments---but ease off on the second guessing when you do not have the expertise/experience to come to reasonable conclusions.


Robert M. (Bob) Rossiter
Rossiter Consultants Inc.
10001 Windstream Drive
Suite 108
Columbia, MD 21044-2526
410.884.3473
410.884.3483 (Fax)
410.967.5887 Mobile)
From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Fri Dec  3 20:50:10 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Fri Dec  3 21:52:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching News (Big 10 related)
In-Reply-To: <001501c4d998$86ec3560$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
References: <200412032128.iB3LSwxd009351@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300bdd6c11b4757@[66.170.162.167]>

Man - if this is true, then Urban Meyer is my new hero!:)

Seriously, though, I think it does show that the luster is off the Golden
Dome ... and the final glitters of hope may have been taken off by ND's own
trustees with their ill-handled firing of Willingham while trying to do the
doublespeak about Notre Dame being different.

This really puts the pressure on in South Bend, though. They fired a guy
mid-contract who did everything right "between Sunday and Friday" and
hadn't gotten a chance to work with his recruits in the new system yet ...
it was pretty obvious the move was in an attempt to get Meyer before he
slipped away to Gainesville.

Now that it's backfired ... what's plan B? I really don't see Ferentz
leaving. Cal's coach? Perhaps. Butch Davis? Gruden? Weiss?

Whatever it is, this is looking to blow up in the DOH!mers face more than
the silly O'Leary flap ever did. They gotta pull off a hail mary and get
someone big-time to sign up quick.

As for those other Big Ten openings ... the Trib had a big feature today on
Zook at Illinois ... and if Solich heads to Bloomington, those are two
pretty big-name coaches for those two schools. It would be -- on the
surface at least -- a committment to football from two administrations who
haven't committed much lately. Indiana's looking to already feel some pain
from their move -- the local all-state tight end (Roy had a link to the
Times story on Harangody) in NWI was a Hoosier verbal but had a big story
on the sports cover today about changing his mind. He said there's no one
to even talk to at IU or get any answers, so the Hoosiers bettter get
someone in quick or all that work DiNardo did with the high school coaches
in the state could go to waste (and it was a huge undertaking - make no
mistake - and a big step for IU).

And as for our little experiment ... I should add that what would have been
really nice for experimentation would be to have a program that has enjoyed
a similar rags-to-riches story in the mix. I guess Stanford is as close as
we'll get there, with Nebraska, ND, Florida, etc. all having more history.
I'd like to see what would happen at K-State or VaTech ... they rose up in
the mid-'90s like NU ... but they were able to keep their miracle worker
coach and establish consistency.

But I never thought I'd see Notre Dame spurned for the Mighty Gators by a
coach who started at South Bend ... times have indeed changed in the
college football world.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Fri Dec  3 20:42:23 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Fri Dec  3 21:52:59 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] PIGSKIN PICKS - Standings
Message-ID: <l03130303bdd6c5dd6590@[66.170.161.73]>

My week 14 picks were online Wednesday afternoon - sorry for the standings
delay. Been a long week catching up from Thanksgiving (never fails - I
always get sick during the holidays:) ).

Not a good week for most of us, but two upset specials came through --
Mizzou over Iowa State and Syracuse over BC ... picked only by Mark Ament.
Meanwhile, our top five remained unchanged ... meaning that Chuck and
Marilyn are in a sprint to the finish this final week ... and Matt's only
two games back.

If you have any questions on the list below, e-mail me. To the big board ...

KEY: US = Upset Special picks  ///  WP = Weeks played
                                                    -- US --
LW TW  Name                  Wk 13  Overall  Pct.   TW  Ovrl WP
###############################################################
 1  1) Chuck Herron           6-4   120-35   .774    0    1  13
 1  1) Marilyn Zilka          6-4   120-35   .774    0    3  13
 3  3) Matt Barnard           6-4   118-37   .761    0    0  13
 4  4) Brad Wilson            6-4   115-40   .742    0    3  13
 5  5) John Labbe             ---   100-35   .741    0    6  11
 6  6) Bob Schooler           6-4   113-42   .729    0    4  13
 7  6) Eric Steffe            7-3   113-42   .729    0    2  13
12  8) Roger Bradshaw         ---   104-41   .717    0    2  12
 8  9) Mark Ament             6-4   111-44   .716    1    5  13
 8  9) Trey McAdams           6-4   111-44   .716    0    6  13
10 11) Harlan Heiber          6-4   100-40   .714    0    3  12
12 12) Alan Wolfson           6-4   110-45   .710    0    2  13
10 13) Ryan Farney            4-6    98-42   .700    0    0  12
14 14) John Luken             6-4   108-47   .697    0    5  13
18 15) Ivars Embrekts         8-2    97-43   .693    1    4  12
14 16) Samuel Wolfson         5-5   107-48   .690    0    4  13
16 17) Kelly Sevilla          6-4   106-49   .684    0    6  13
19 17) Stephen Truog          7-3   106-49   .684    1    5  13
21 19) Jim Bendat             7-3    95-45   .679    0    6  12
27 20) Sue O'Connor           9-1   104-51   .671    1    3  13
21 20) Carl Rossi             6-4    94-46   .671    0   10  12
26 22) Michael Whelan         8-2    87-43   .669    1    2  11
23 23) Brad May               5-5   103-52   .665    0    5  13
24 24) Thomas Kettler         4-6   101-54   .652    0    4  13
28 25) Karen Capria           6-4    94-51   .648    0    5  12
20 26) Chris Bailey           2-8    80-45   .640    0    1  11
29 27) Ace McInturff          5-5    97-58   .626    1    9  13
30 28) John Lieske            6-4    80-50   .615    1    5  11
31 29) Bob Waldele            4-6    93-62   .600    1    5  13
32 29) Jim Leonard            ---    78-52   .600    0    7  11
33 31) Peg Wolfe              6-4    80-60   .571    0    7  12
34 32) Bill O'Connor          4-6    84-71   .542    0    5  13

Not eligible at this time (must be in 3/4 of the weeks)
-------------------------------------------------------
 x  x) David Warner           7-3    78-27   .743    0    2   9
17  x) Joe Thiegs             ---    79-36   .687    -    4   9
 x  x) David Mikolajczak      7-3    71-34   .676    0    3   9
25  x) Ty Levine              ---    70-35   .667    -    3   9
 x  x) Brian Winkler          ---    57-33   .633    -    1   8
 x  x) Phredd Groves          5-5    57-28   .671    0    6   7
 x  x) Christopher Muzzo      ---    48-17   .738    -    0   5
 x  x) Andrew Hawkins         ---    11- 4   .733    -    0   1
 x  x) Chris Maresco          ---    11- 4   .733    -    0   1
 x  x) Scott Thomasson        ---    11- 4   .733    -    0   1
 x  x) Mike Mann              ---    10- 5   .667    -    1   1
 x  x) Kidcat Dan             ---     9- 6   .600    -    1   1

And the top five contenders for the other awards...

ROB JOHNSON "IRONMAN" AWARD (best of those who have competed every week)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Chuck Herron          120-35
1) Marilyn Zilka         120-35
3) Matt Barnard          118-37
4) Brad Wilson           115-40
5) Bob Schooler          113-42
5) Eric Steffe           113-42

STEVE SCHNUR "ACCURACY" AWARD (best percentage - 5 week minimum)
----------------------------------------------------------------
1) Chuck Herron           77.4%
1) Marilyn Zilka          77.4%
3) Matt Barnard           76.1%
4) David Warner           74.3%
5) Brad Wilson            74.2%

PAT FITZGERALD "MOST HITS" AWARD (most correct picks overall)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1) Chuck Herron          120
1) Marilyn Zilka         120
3) Matt Barnard          118
4) Brad Wilson           115
5) Bob Schooler          113
5) Eric Steffe           113

BRIAN MUSSO "GUTS" AWARD (most upset special picks)
---------------------------------------------------
1) Carl Rossi            10
2) Ace McInturff          9
3) Jim Leonard            7
3) Peg Wolfe              7
3) Five tied              6

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From MHRJGScott at aol.com  Sat Dec  4 06:31:15 2004
From: MHRJGScott at aol.com (MHRJGScott@aol.com)
Date: Sat Dec  4 06:35:18 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching apocalypse
Message-ID: <76.479d5743.2ee30813@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 12/3/2004 7:40:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,  
rstetson@capps-assoc.com writes:

Urban  Meyer heading south sorta leaves the Irish Money guys with a taste of
ashes  in their mouths?

Maybe they could hire O'Leary  again?




The report here in Florida is that Meyer did not feel ND could win because  
their academic standards were too high. This is the apocalyse of college  
football.
I think O'Leary would quit UCF in a heartbeat
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Sat Dec  4 16:46:03 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Sat Dec  4 16:49:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Chat During the game
Message-ID: <000101c4da53$09c12490$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

At the usual Chat Spot - for all you out of towners listening on WGN, or
watching on whatever cable has the game [if anyone]

http://pub43.bravenet.com/chat/show.php/3660815782

Game Time is listed as 7 PM WT [Wildcat Time]

I'm up in the chat room now, but may be away from the computer before the game
starts

C U Later

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Sun Dec  5 09:30:39 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Sun Dec  5 09:35:34 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] MSU can share our misery ...
Message-ID: <l03130300bdd8d738342b@[66.170.160.152]>

Didn't stay up for the whole game like last week, but that MSU-Hawaii game
last night -- minus the whipping winds -- looked a lot like the Cats' loss
two weeks ago:

- MSU jumps out to a 21-0 lead
- MSU kills itself with an unusually high amount of penalties
(two long TDs called back - ugh!)
- Chad Owens has a record-setting day
- MSU piles up more yards passing than running despite the perception that
they should be able to run through this Hawaii defense ... and despite
breaking some big runs up the gut

So Hawaii becomes the seventh team on NU's 2004 schedule to head to a bowl
game -- and TCU just missed by a game. It didn't hurt MSU as much as it
hurt us, but that trip to Hawaii was a big downer for two Big Ten teams to
end their surprisingly strong seasons on in 2004. Stupid scheduling!:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

PS - This BCS mess could get really ugly later today -- not only will you
almost certainly have an unbeaten SEC team who defeated three top 10 foes
left OUT of the title game ... you could have a Cal team whose only loss
was by a last-second deflection to #1 USC left out of the Rose Bowl because
they didn't run up the score at the end while an equally qualified Texas
team lobbied for votes. To top it all off ... these bowls don't even appear
to WANT to match up the "other" two BCS unbeatens, Auburn and Utah.

It's not looking to be a banner year for the B(C)S bowls in terms of
excitement or attendance. After the "title" game, the most promising
matchup could be the Liberty Bowl with Louisville and Boise State. (The
Peach Bowl with Miami vs. Florida could be good, too).


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From mlinhardt at netzero.com  Sun Dec  5 16:30:51 2004
From: mlinhardt at netzero.com (mlinhardt@netzero.com)
Date: Sun Dec  5 16:34:03 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] vs. Chicago State
Message-ID: <20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>


FWIW:  This is the first game I have seen, listened to, or attended this year.

My impressions from the stands are as follows:
Good:
-- Hachad did well from the freethrow line(4/4) and played better(more crisp and aggressive) than last year during Ramadan(early non-conference).
-- Doyle seems like a good field general directing traffic and setting up plays.

Not So Good:
-- Davor still takes dumb fouls and does not go up strong to the basket.  He draws the foul, but does not get the 3-point play.
-- Vince is weak to the basket(see Davor), but he did have a couple of nice shot blocks defensively.
-- We still have NO interior presence either offensively or defensively.
-- Our three-point shooting has a lot of MISSED RIMS.
-- We allow too many offensive rebounds.
-- Ivan is still a half-speed Davor.

I was hoping that Brandon Lee and T.J. as a tandem could replace the Jitim grittiness, but it does not seem the case.  Come back Jitim...please.

I was optimistic that this was our year to make some noise, but next year with seniors T.J., Vedran, Hachad plus Doyle and Duke-kid(forgot his name) seems more realistic.

________________________________________________________________
NetZero Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.netzero.com/give

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Sun Dec  5 17:19:26 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Sun Dec  5 17:26:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ...
In-Reply-To: <20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
References: <20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <51274.66.170.160.241.1102288766.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

You gotta feel for Cal ... the coach elects not to run it up at the end
and they get edged out. #4 in both polls but not in the BCS. You can make
a case for Texas, but you gotta think the folks in Pasadena are
devastated.

Under the BCS, the Rose Bowl seems to have more ties to the Big XII than
the traditional Big Ten/Pac 10 matchup. And on that point alone, I'd say
scrap the system! The Rose Bowl has already broken away from the rest of
the BCS in the TV contracts ... a few more years of this and they might
break away from the whole BS system altogether.

Then you get the title game ... an unbeaten SEC team who beat three top 10
teams in the SEC and was only really challenged in the final minutes of
one game. Plus, the lack of matching the other two unbeatens (Utah and
Auburn) against each other ... this system really has sucked the fun and
life out of the old bowl system without giving us a true championship in 5
of the 7 years.

Ugh -- I like how the BCS spin doctors are out again saying how this is
the reason we have the system to break a tie (how come that sounds just as
hollow now as it did last year when no one brought it up?:) ) ... or how
it's the best we can do and better than the old system (debatable at
best:) ).

Oh well, not much of a bowl lineup for the BCS ... and looking at the Big
Ten's games, it may not be a good year for the league either:

* ROSE: Michigan vs. Texas - Despite the disappointment out west, Texas
did have a case and we could have a pretty good offensive game here with
Benson and Edwards. You'd have to say that Texas has the edge in athletes,
but this could be the closest of the BCS bowls. Gotta give Texas the edge.

* CITRUS: Iowa vs. LSU - A defensive matchup of two great coaching minds
... LSU has come on strong since September and Iowa's also improved
throughout the season. There may be more points scored by the defenses
than by the offenses here. LSU's the favorite, but I'd never count out
Ferentz.

* OUTBACK: Wisconsin vs. Georgia - Two teams who were looking to be in the
BCS a month ago have to both be disappointed by Tampa. Good defenses, but
you'd have to say that the way Wisconsin finished the year, this looks
like a UGa rout unless the Dawgs don't bring their A game (which they have
a habit of doing in big games).

* ALAMO: Ohio State vs. Oklahoma State - This looks like our best bet for
a win, especially with the Texas BCS bid bumping up Big XII teams so that
the Bucks don't have to face a Texas team. There will be some big
fireworks from the offensive playmakers ... but gotta go with OSU down the
stretch.

* SUN: Purdue vs. Arizona State - The Devils were all set for the sun in
San Diego but instead are shipped out to the desert. The quarterback show
alone is worth the price of admission. But with ASU a bit disappointed to
be there and Purdue healthy again, I think the Boilers win here.

* MUSIC CITY: Minnesota vs. Alabama - Coulda been us, but the Gophers
sneak in instead ... a classic battle of Minnesota's rushing offense vs.
Bama's rock-solid defense. Given how the Gophers tanked the end of the
season, you gotta like Bama's chances here ... especially since the Tide's
weak spot (offense) will be helped along by Minny's porous defense.

So I'd say we're looking at 2 - 4 wins, depending on how Ferentz and Carr
get their teams ready for some strong southern teams on January 1.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From NEONRye at aol.com  Sun Dec  5 18:00:02 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Sun Dec  5 18:01:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ...
Message-ID: <7a.68030eaf.2ee4fb02@aol.com>

What a horror!  I almost feel worse for the Cal team and its coach and fans 
than I did after we were knocked out of bowl eligibility.  The Rose Bowl is now 
the Thorn Bowl in my book.  I have always hated the Longhorns (even more so 
since Texas is now running the country.  Sorry for my political editorializing, 
but The Lonestar State ain't exactly my favorite of the 50.), and they simply 
don't belong in Pasadena.  Cal damn near beat USC and deserves to go to their 
home bowl as PAC-10 runners-up.  Jeff Tedford is a class act, as he announced 
beforehand that he would not try to run up the score and he followed through. 
 How many other coaches would do likewise in that situation?    This system 
is beyond disgraceful.  The BCS apparently stands for "Boy Can they Screw it 
up.  

I have no interest anymore in the bowls this year.  How many others feel 
likewise?

Paul Levinsons
From thehaze at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  5 19:26:05 2004
From: thehaze at earthlink.net (Jim Bendat)
Date: Sun Dec  5 19:30:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ...
References: <20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
	<51274.66.170.160.241.1102288766.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
Message-ID: <41B3B52D.8090907@earthlink.net>

sjtruog@jorsm.com wrote:

>You gotta feel for Cal ... the coach elects not to run it up at the end
>and they get edged out. #4 in both polls but not in the BCS. You can make
>a case for Texas, but you gotta think the folks in Pasadena are
>devastated.
>
>Under the BCS, the Rose Bowl seems to have more ties to the Big XII than
>the traditional Big Ten/Pac 10 matchup. And on that point alone, I'd say
>scrap the system! The Rose Bowl has already broken away from the rest of
>the BCS in the TV contracts ... a few more years of this and they might
>break away from the whole BS system altogether.
>
Absolutely correct that the Rose Bowl committee is devastated.  That's 3 
Big 12 teams coming to Pasadena in 4 years.  Unbelievable and 
outrageous.  No one here in L.A. cared about Oklahoma coming here two 
years ago, and no one here will care about Texas.  The Rose Bowl should 
absolutely break away from the Bull Crap System and, if it means that 
there will be split national champions more often, so be it.

>Then you get the title game ... an unbeaten SEC team who beat three top 10
>teams in the SEC and was only really challenged in the final minutes of
>one game. Plus, the lack of matching the other two unbeatens (Utah and
>Auburn) against each other ... this system really has sucked the fun and
>life out of the old bowl system without giving us a true championship in 5
>of the 7 years.
>
>Ugh -- I like how the BCS spin doctors are out again saying how this is
>the reason we have the system to break a tie (how come that sounds just as
>hollow now as it did last year when no one brought it up?:) ) ... or how
>it's the best we can do and better than the old system (debatable at
>best:) ).
>
It is debatable at best.  A lot of us fondly remember when January 1st 
meant a lot of good meaningful games -- true, not necessarily #1 vs. #2, 
but nevertheless a day of drama.  What do we have now on January 1st? -- 
not much worth watching.  The Holiday, Peach and Liberty bowls will 
probably all be more exciting than any of the games on New Year's Day. 
 Hell, yesterday's set of games from morning til late at night were 
better than what we're going to get on January 1st.

>* ROSE: Michigan vs. Texas - Despite the disappointment out west, Texas
>did have a case and we could have a pretty good offensive game here with
>Benson and Edwards. You'd have to say that Texas has the edge in athletes,
>but this could be the closest of the BCS bowls. Gotta give Texas the edge.
>
>  
>
Michigan has to be thanking its lucky stars they'll be playing Texas 
rather than Cal.  The Golden Bears would have stomped the Wolverines, 
but I think Michigan will have a solid chance of beating Texas.

>* ALAMO: Ohio State vs. Oklahoma State - This looks like our best bet for
>a win, especially with the Texas BCS bid bumping up Big XII teams so that
>the Bucks don't have to face a Texas team. There will be some big
>fireworks from the offensive playmakers ... but gotta go with OSU down the
>stretch.
>
>  
>
Well, I agree that OSU will win, but I can't really say whether it will 
be Ohio State University or Oklahoma State University.  Not that anyone 
should really care -- it might as well be Oregon State University.

>So I'd say we're looking at 2 - 4 wins, depending on how Ferentz and Carr
>get their teams ready for some strong southern teams on January 1.
>
>  
>
Sounds about right.  All in all, the whole schedule is terribly 
disappointing.  I had looked forward to going to Nashville with the 
Cats.  That's not happening.  Then, I had thought about seeing UCLA (my 
second favorite team) play Notre Dame in Phoenix.  But with Cal getting 
screwed, the domino effect has sent UCLA to Las Vegas where they'll be 
playing Wyoming.  Nope, I have no interest in traveling to that game. 
 Like the Cats, I'm staying home for the holidays.

Jim B.


From michael.vance at att.net  Sun Dec  5 20:34:45 2004
From: michael.vance at att.net (Michael Vance)
Date: Sun Dec  5 20:38:56 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ...
In-Reply-To: <51274.66.170.160.241.1102288766.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com
 >
References: <20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
	<20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041205205512.03d68e08@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 12/5/2004 06:19 PM, SjT wrote:
>Then you get the title game ... an unbeaten SEC team who beat three top 10
>teams in the SEC and was only really challenged in the final minutes of
>one game. Plus, the lack of matching the other two unbeatens (Utah and
>Auburn) against each other ... this system really has sucked the fun and
>life out of the old bowl system without giving us a true championship in 5
>of the 7 years.

OK, while I empathize with Auburn, I still have to ask the question: In the 
absence of a playoff, how do you resolve this issue?  If you have three 
teams with legitimate claims to the title game, how do you get a "true 
champion" within the bowl system?

Heck, in the *really* traditional bowl system, each of the three major 
conference undefeateds would be playing in separate games.  Oklahoma would 
be the Big 8 (now Big XII) champ in the Orange Bowl, Auburn would be 
playing in the Sugar Bowl, and U$C would be in the Rose Bowl. Either the 
Orange or Sugar would probably have invited Utah to create a matchup of 
unbeaten teams, and the other probably would have invited Cal or Texas, or 
maybe VaTech or Miami.  But our "true champion" would be U$C is they win 
the Rose Bowl against Michigan, or Oklahoma if they win their bowl and U$C 
loses.  The only chance Auburn has is if both U$C and OK lose.

>Ugh -- I like how the BCS spin doctors are out again saying how this is
>the reason we have the system to break a tie (how come that sounds just as
>hollow now as it did last year when no one brought it up?:) ) ... or how
>it's the best we can do and better than the old system (debatable at
>best:) ).

I'm sorry, but given the basic assumption of the BCS, that it is both 
desirable and possible to produce a true national champion within the 
framework of the bowl system, I agree with them.  There will always be 
years when you need some sort of tie that needs to be broken to place teams 
in the championship game.  Whether it's among three unbeaten teams for the 
two slots or between two or more one-loss teams for the #2 spot, you have 
to have a way to seed them.

You can debate whether the formula is correct.  (I think that they're close 
now. I'd like to see the polls at %50 and the computer rankings at 
%50.  The earlier systems overemphasized certain factors, like losses and 
strength of schedule, that were already taken into account by the polls and 
computers.  But I digress).  And you can debate that basic assumption.  But 
if you accept that assumption (I didn't say you had to like it, but the 
presidents aren't giving us a whole lot of choice), you also have to accept 
the reality that a formula has to exist for seeding the championship game.

Since it's only one game and two teams, I think it's better that the 
formula is out there in public for all to see before the season 
starts.  Can you imagine the uproar if a "selection committee" decided that 
U$C should play Auburn instead of Oklahoma?  Or if they decided that U$C 
should be left out (again)?

In a sense, that's what happened to Cal.  The "selection committee" of 
writers and coaches gave Texas a few more points this week and look at the 
controversy.  Formal selection committees work for larger tournament 
fields, but for something this narrow, you need an objective formula.  It's 
bad enough that the formula has such a large subjective component.

So given the above stated basic assumption of the BCS, including the 
implication that a playoff is out of the question, I challenge anyone to 
come up with something better.  And don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan 
of the BCS.  I think that tradition is one of the things that makes college 
football so much better than the NFL.  But I'm struggling to come up with a 
better system, given the hand that the presidents and conferences have 
dealt us.


Michael, CAS '91
mailto:michael@vance.com

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Sun Dec  5 21:19:05 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Sun Dec  5 21:19:08 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412060319.iB63J5KP014456@romaine.tssi.com>

> You can debate whether the formula is correct.  (I think that they're close 
> now. I'd like to see the polls at %50 and the computer rankings at 
> %50.  

The question nobody has ever answered to my satisfaction is why use the
computers at all except to resolve inconsistencies in the AP and USAT
polls.  Those polls agree on #'s 1 through 4, why not let that stand?

A four team playoff would be interesting this year.  USC vs Utah (the
Rose Bowl is the natural venue, I suppose) and Auburn vs Oklahoma in the 
Sugar Bowl.  Let the winners duke it out somewhere (Miami is fine with me) 
two weeks later.  I predict it would still be USC vs Oklahoma.

This year there is a rather high possibility of their being FOUR
undefeated teams after the dust settles.  Back to back split NC's
would be ironic, but I don't think it'll happen.

Based on what I saw yesterday, I'd say Oklahoma by about 20 over USC
in the battle of the annoying bands.  I plan to watch with the sound off.
--
Mike Nolan

From thehaze at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  5 21:39:23 2004
From: thehaze at earthlink.net (Jim Bendat)
Date: Sun Dec  5 21:43:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
References: <200412060319.iB63J5KP014456@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <41B3D46B.2090201@earthlink.net>

Mike Nolan wrote:

>Based on what I saw yesterday, I'd say Oklahoma by about 20 over USC
>in the battle of the annoying bands.  
>  
>
You may be right that Oklahoma's band could beat $C's band by 20 points 
if they were to play a game, but $C's football team (unfortunately) 
usually finds a way to win, and they won't have much trouble beating the 
Sooners.    ---   Jim B.


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Sun Dec  5 21:53:23 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Sun Dec  5 21:59:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <200412060319.iB63J5KP014456@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <003301c4db47$223f20e0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Gee Mike, you don't like Boomer Sooner before every play?

Or whatever U$C plays over and over?

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Mike Nolan
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 10:19 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
> 
> 
> > You can debate whether the formula is correct.  (I think 
> that they're 
> > close
> > now. I'd like to see the polls at %50 and the computer rankings at 
> > %50.  
> 
> The question nobody has ever answered to my satisfaction is 
> why use the computers at all except to resolve 
> inconsistencies in the AP and USAT polls.  Those polls agree 
> on #'s 1 through 4, why not let that stand?
> 
> A four team playoff would be interesting this year.  USC vs 
> Utah (the Rose Bowl is the natural venue, I suppose) and 
> Auburn vs Oklahoma in the 
> Sugar Bowl.  Let the winners duke it out somewhere (Miami is 
> fine with me) 
> two weeks later.  I predict it would still be USC vs Oklahoma.
> 
> This year there is a rather high possibility of their being 
> FOUR undefeated teams after the dust settles.  Back to back 
> split NC's would be ironic, but I don't think it'll happen.
> 
> Based on what I saw yesterday, I'd say Oklahoma by about 20 
> over USC in the battle of the annoying bands.  I plan to 
> watch with the sound off.
> --
> Mike Nolan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Sun Dec  5 22:56:32 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Sun Dec  5 22:56:34 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412060456.iB64uWFf015160@romaine.tssi.com>

> You may be right that Oklahoma's band could beat $C's band by 20 points 
> if they were to play a game, but $C's football team (unfortunately) 
> usually finds a way to win, and they won't have much trouble beating the 
> Sooners.    ---   Jim B.

Well, I guess everyone knows who the two of us will be picking in that 
game in Stephen's Bowl contest.  :-)

Louisville v Boise State may be an interesting game.  We may find out
how well Boise State plays on a green field.  I would imagine it'll
be a largely Louisville  crowd, too.  

My pick for worst venue for both teams:  Fresno State and Virginia
in lovely Boise.  
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Mon Dec  6 00:13:20 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Mon Dec  6 00:20:45 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ...
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041205205512.03d68e08@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
References: <20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com><20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
	<5.2.0.9.0.20041205205512.03d68e08@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <52521.66.170.160.202.1102313600.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

> OK, while I empathize with Auburn, I still have to ask the question: In
> the absence of a playoff, how do you resolve this issue?

Just because the old system and the present system both spit out the same
bogus results doesn't mean you have to pick one or the other. There has to
be a better way, and Urban Meyer pretty much said that everyone knows what
to do but they're afraid to say it -- playoff. That would start with some
kind of "plus one" format and escalate to the four BCS games pitted as
seeded contests between the top eight.

But again, if we have to pick either/or between present and old ... I'll
vote for the old system. We'd get a Pac 10/Big Ten Rose Bowl instead of
having more Big XII teams in it than other leagues the last four years
(Past four years: Big XII = 3 teams, Pac 10 and Big Ten = 2 teams, Big
East = 1 team?!?!). The current mess isn't helping -- five of the seven
years, it has failed in some way. This "well, it was set in place to break
the tie" didn't hold up last year and shouldn't this year.

Yeah, in the old one, you'd probably have the three main unbeatens to
separate bowls ... but there'd be some fun in watching a New Year's Day
where USC faced Michigan, followed by OU vs. Utah in Miami and Auburn vs.
Texas at night. Now on Jan. 1, we get a non-traditional Rose Bowl followed
by Utah vs. Pitt. Yippee.

> Since it's only one game and two teams, I think it's better that the
> formula is out there in public for all to see before the season
> starts.  Can you imagine the uproar if a "selection committee" decided

Why not? It's worked well in basketball. Yeah, there's some controversy
every year, but not the stupid kind like the BCS contains (the NCAA
pairings get people talking and is fun controversy that disappears when
games start ... the BCS is frustrating and keeps lingering to next year as
an annoyance like something everyone realizes is broken but no one wants
to fix). A committee could take into effect things like BCS rankings,
strength of schedule, quality wins, performance down the stretch, etc.
Right now, we basically have SC vs. OU because SC and OU were #1 and #2 in
preseason and Auburn was #18 or #20.

Can you make a case to exclude OU or SC? Probably not. But you can sure
make a case for including an unbeaten SEC team that's defeated three top
10 teams and only had one close call ... back in September. A team that's
been dominant on offense and defense and been consistent week after week.
If that takes "plus one" or committee seeding, fine -- look at the seven
BCS years and it's far easier to find four deserving teams than to limit
it to just two.

And I'm not so sure, Mike, that it'd be SC and Oklahoma either way ...
Auburn is solid all around and could give either a great game. As it is,
I'm really not expecting the Orange Bowl to be close. Oklahoma's defense
was exposed at the end of the season and with a month to prepare, Chow and
Leinhardt are gonna pick 'em apart.

> So given the above stated basic assumption of the BCS, including the
> implication that a playoff is out of the question, I challenge anyone to
> come up with something better.

Like I said, I don't think you have to pick Bad Option I *OR* Bad Option
II ... why not aim higher? But if you did, I'd still take traditional
bowls so January 1 and the whole bowl season is exciting and means
something.

But if you want to reform the B(C)S, a couple suggestions ...

- Get rid of the Big East's automatic bid ... seriously, is anyone
surprised they're the weak link in the chain after Miami and VaTech left?
Even with the addition of Louisville, this is still the weakest of the six
leagues and there are some others just as deserving. Since the new deal
shares money more equally with non BCS leagues, remove the autobid
requirement for teams that aren't in the top 12 of the BCS. If they're in
the top 12, then fine.

- Institute a selection committee of conference and bowl reps to decide
the BCS bowls. They will take polls, computer rankings and everything else
into advisement, and the BCS Poll can still be used to determine who gets
a bid, but let someone with sense decide matchups, so we could at least
have Auburn  vs. Utah this year. Or avoid things like the Miami-FSU
rematch (ugly game) last year ... the coaches didn't want it, the bowls
didn't want it, but they were stuck with it.

- Add some requirement about winning a league title as necessary for being
in the title game -- that it's happened twice and no one has done anything
yet shows how ineffective all these tinkerings have been.

- And I like your idea of 50% poll and 50% computer for the formula ...
but they need to also factor in things like SOS and quality wins that they
took out (hence the committee) ... and as unlikely as it is, get the polls
to wait for September at least before releasing official rankings (and
make sure these coaches are watching games!)

Put those in this year and you'd have ...

ROSE: Michigan vs. Cal - Pasadena's happy, great game (and sorry Jim, but
I think Texas is a much tougher matchup for Michigan than Cal)
FIESTA: Virginia Tech vs. Texas - Good game and fans thrilled to be in BCS
SUGAR: Auburn vs. Utah - The "other" unbeatens
ORANGE: Oklahoma vs. USC - Our "title" game

- And a "plus one" format couldn't hurt ... it'd be easy to implement and
could pave the way to a playoff later.

If that happened, you'd probably swap Texas and Utah, having the Trojans
and Longhorns hook up and the Tigers and Sooners. Though the committee
might overrule the rankings and let the four unbeatens duke it out with
USC vs. Utah and Auburn vs. Oklahoma. Winners meet for a real title the
bye week before the Super Bowl.

Would that have controversy (Texas or Utah as #4)? Yes ... but it produces
a better bowl slate either way and the controversy ends when the games are
played. Texas or Utah would be happy with the BCS bid either way. And if
you went straight polls, Cal vs. SC as the 1/4 would be a great rematch.

I love college football - it's still far more exciting than any other
sport and the regular season does indeed mean more than anywhere else ...
I like controversy and discussion as much as the next guy. But like I
said, the BCS isn't generating the fun buzz March Madness does. It's more
of an annoying visit from an unwelcome guest every year that keeps getting
worse with age. It prompts more "how stupid is that?!" comments than
anything else. It's happened five of seven years ... they just got lucky
with the unbeaten team winning the first few times against the 1-loss foe
... but now there's two straight years of a three-way mess at the top.
That's not a freak nightmare anymore ... it's becoming reality. They're
killing the fun in the college football postseason and I dunno how much
more the sport can take.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Mon Dec  6 01:23:15 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Mon Dec  6 01:23:18 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412060723.iB67NFCj016072@romaine.tssi.com>

> And I'm not so sure, Mike, that it'd be SC and Oklahoma either way ...
> Auburn is solid all around and could give either a great game. As it is,
> I'm really not expecting the Orange Bowl to be close. Oklahoma's defense
> was exposed at the end of the season and with a month to prepare, Chow and
> Leinhardt are gonna pick 'em apart.

Exposed at the end of the season?  They had a grand total of 6 points 
scored on them in their last three games, against admittedly mediocre
teams.  (I think Iowa State would have put up a better fight than Colorado
yesterday.)

They also shut out Texas, the first time the Horns been shut out since,
what, the Truman administration?  (On that basis alone I think Cal got
shafted Royally.)

The reports I get from Norman suggest that the Sooners are going to be 
a VERY focused team playing in a city where they have a long history of
winning.  I also think USC has a soft underbelly in its defense, far 
more so than the Sooners do.  Defenses win championships, and OU was 
missing that piece of the puzzle last season.  Yes, the combination of
Lienart and Bush gives USC a lot of offense, but OU isn't exactly
a laggard there either.

The Orange Bowl should feature two Heisman champions, possibly in one
uniform and it will have the top 3 finishers in this year's Heisman race.  
I doubt that's ever happened.

I guess we'll find out who's reading it all wrong in January, but I 
think it'll be something like OU 31 USC 14.  

Auburn-Va Tech is harder to read, Tennessee showed that Auburn does 
have some weaknesses, I just don't know if the Hokies are the right 
team to exploit them, and Beamer has been outcoached a couple of times
already this year.  It'll depend on how Auburn's mood is after 
finishing 3rd.   Do they think they can sway the AP voters, who haven'
t seen all that excited about Auburn all season?  I don't think that's 
possible this year, unfortunately.  And that might open the door for
an upset.
--
Mike Nolan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Mon Dec  6 07:44:30 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Mon Dec  6 07:50:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/6
Message-ID: <004101c4db99$b74750c0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Weekend Wrapup Edition **
Men's Basketball gets a win heading into finals as the Women drop two in their
tourney. Football names MVPs, and more, Big Recruiting Weekend Cats pick up 2
commits, maybe more? Wrestling takes a 
dual, a former Cross Country coach honored and lots of coaching carousel talk...

                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more
Men's BASKETBALL

     Northwestern Downs Chicago State, 78-53
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120404aaa.html 
     + Wildcats get well fast vs. Cougars
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041204nugamer,1,182134
6.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Cats roll over Chicago State 78-53
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/326406.html 
     + Parker shows Wildcats the way
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu05.html 
     + NU's run-and-gun tactics help snap skid
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38326133 
     + Northwestern 78, Chicago St. 53
 
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAB_20041204_CHIS
T@NW 
     + Game Trax
      http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/gameTrax?gameId=200412040421 
     + Box score
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041204nuboxlink,1,3858
807.storylink?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Mohamed Hachad Hachad Leads Cats in Scoring
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326413&nid=1224623&fhn=1 
     Ivan Tolic Another Medical Redshirt Year?
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326390&nid=1224629&fhn=1 
     Brandon Lee Plays Like He Belongs
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326388&nid=1224631&fhn=1 

Commentary:

     Big Ten Basketball: 100 Years, 100 Moments, 100 Days
      http://bigten.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120304aaa.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Chicago State
     Men's Basketball Falls on the Road at Northwestern
      http://www.csu.edu/Athletics/Mbasketballhome.htm 

     De Paul
     Bradley bests cold-shooting Demons
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-demon05.html 
     + Demons stuck in starting gate
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041204demonsgamer,1,43
84288.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Blue Demons fail first road test
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38326120 
     + Leitao hopes Mejia starts making plays
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38326135 
     + Ice Cold Blue Demons Fall In Road Debut
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1935 

     Men's Basketball Entertains IUPUI Monday
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1936 

     Seton Hall
     Men's Basketball Falls To No. 18 Texas, 70-62
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2355 
     + Hall: Falls ... but Orr stays up
 
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110222341221950.xml 

     Arizona State
     Sun Devils Top Cal State Northridge, 67-66
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120404aab.html 
     + ASU avoids embarrassment
      http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/1205asubkc1205.html 

     Robert Morris
     Benson's Three-Pointer Lifts Quinnipiac to 88-85 Victory over Robert Morris
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60752&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7105&inws_seqno=6462&ihide_header=0 

     Delaware State
     DSU men's coach unhappy after win
 
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2004/12/05dsumenscoachunh.html 

Women's BASKETBALL

     'Cats Set to Host Mildred and Roger L. White Invitational
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/120304aaa.html 
     + Northwestern Falls to No. 24 Houston, 78-56
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/120304aac.html 
     + 'Cats Fall to Cavaliers, 76-55
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/120504aae.html 
     + Box Score
 
http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2004-2005/120504.html 

FOOTBALL

     Noah Herron and Tim McGarigle Named Co-MVP's at Annual NGN Football Banquet
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120504aaa.html 

Commentary:

     SjT: Wrapping up the Big 10 - B[C]S
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/326801.html 

     Mandel: Intrigue and injustice
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/stewart_mandel/12/05/bcs.review/in
dex.html 

RECRUITING

     Official Visitors December 3-5
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/326006.html 

     Two Commits so far...
     TE Alec Huber Georgia TE to play Big Ten ball
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326682&nid=1652741&fhn=1 
     LB Chris Jeske 'Cats land Illinois P.O.Y.
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326678&nid=1092130&fhn=1 
     + Jeske chooses Northwestern
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu06.html 
     + Wildcats get their man
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu06.html 

     More about the visitors...
     Omar Conteh: At NU for Official Visit 12/3
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326418&nid=1651730&fhn=1 
     Thomas Bemenderfer Returns home from Evanston
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326620&nid=1328634&fhn=1 
     Ramon Diaz Did he make it to Northwestern?
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326642&nid=1473016&fhn=1 
     Mike Dinard Has an awesome visit
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326649&nid=1200695&fhn=1 
     Mark Ortmann Michigan or A&M?
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=326706&nid=1168773&fhn=1 

CROSS COUNTRY

     Bob Ehrhardt: Former NU Coach inducted into Running Hall of Fame
 
http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_news_frameset.html?http://www.runnersweb.co
m/running/news/rw_news_20041205_USATF_USTCA.html 

WRESTLING

     Wildcats Upset No. 23 Northern Illinois
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/recaps/120304aab.html 

Miscellany

     Yolk's on them
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041203collfbmeyer,1,22
87137.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Irish bungle
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3215874 

Alumni

     You could make the case that they bungled this one years ago....
     Congress to mull mandatory drug tests for baseball...
      http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041205/D86PMJM00.html 

     Luke Donald - Tomorrow is his birthday! - He's 27!

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
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* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
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http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
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http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
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Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From mlinhardt at netzero.com  Mon Dec  6 08:57:07 2004
From: mlinhardt at netzero.com (mlinhardt@netzero.com)
Date: Mon Dec  6 08:59:33 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Rose Bowl
Message-ID: <20041206.065724.19838.76360@webmail25.nyc.untd.com>


Bendat writes...
>Absolutely correct that the Rose Bowl committee is devastated.  That's 3 
>Big 12 teams coming to Pasadena in 4 years.  Unbelievable and 
>outrageous.  No one here in L.A. cared about Oklahoma coming here two 
>years ago, and no one here will care about Texas.  The Rose Bowl should 
>absolutely break away from the Bull Crap System and, if it means that 
>there will be split national champions more often, so be it.

In past years I look forward to the watching the Citrus Bowl followed by the Rose Bowl on January 1.

I have no confidence in Michigan(underachievers -- see ND) and I can't even watch it for the tradition.  Hopefully there will be snow in Chicago so I can spend the afternoon x-country skiing.

Please Big Ten/Pac Ten abandon the BCS and give us back the traditional bowl matchups.

If/when NU wins the Big Ten again I want to be in Pasadena playing a Pac-10 team.  Not playing Russian Roulette to determine which bowl and which conference we are playing.




________________________________________________________________
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From CHerron604 at aol.com  Mon Dec  6 08:58:09 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Mon Dec  6 09:02:09 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... 
Message-ID: <4F213B64.61EFFEB5.0A143833@aol.com>

Mike said

"They also shut out Texas, the first time the Horns been shut out since, what, the Truman administration?  (On that basis alone I think Cal got shafted Royally.)"

Would that be Darrell Royally ?

Since the Truman Administration (April 12, 1945), Texas has been shut out a surprising 12 times:

1946  @TCU   0-14  Dana X Bible
1954  @ND    0-21  Ed Price
1955  vOK    0-20
1956  vOK    0-45
      @TCU   0-46
1960  @Rice  0-7   Darrell Royal
1961   TCU   0-6
1963  vLSU   0-13  (Cotton Bowl)
1972  vOK    0-27
1976   Hous  0-30
1980  @Bayl  0-16  Fred Akers
2004  vOK    0-12  Mack Brown

So it was 24 years between shutouts, which is an interval I would not mind seeing in Evanston.

No shutouts were suffered by John Mackovic or Texas' forgotten coach, David McWilliams.

Dana Bible suffered all sorts of shutouts, including 8 in his first three seasons (1937-39).  The best of Bible's shutouts was on October 3 1942, when he ventured to Evanston and was shut out by Northwestern 3-0.  That Texas team went on to be Southwest Conference and Cotton Bowl Champions (9-2).

Chuck Herron   Tech '85

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Mon Dec  6 09:00:13 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Mon Dec  6 09:05:17 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <000801c4d98f$ebd43440$c002a8c0@rmrossiter>
References: <000801c4d98f$ebd43440$c002a8c0@rmrossiter>
Message-ID: <41B473FD.4010707@hilgraeve.com>

Robert

Welcome to the list.

I hope this won't be your last post.

I appreciate your opinion, but let me expand on it a little bit.

First, this would be a pretty dull place if the only ones who were 
allowed to post were those who met your defnition (no offense intended 
to ex-players or ex-coaches).  It would be an online version of 
Pleasantville, where everyone was the same and thought the same.

Fortunately it's not like that.  We have Mike Nolan and all of the other 
list posters to thank for the fact that we can have diversity of opinion 
without it all collapsing into distasteful rants and the sort of 
personal attacks like the one you directed at me.  If this level of 
opinion is still too much for you, I suggest you start your own 
Pleasantville list and you can apply whatever rules  you would like to 
that list.

Second, there is the temptation in your message to engage in a little 
chest bumping with regard to the experience I bring to the board.  You 
don't know me.  You don't know anything about my years of playing and 
coaching.  You don't know anything about the number of kids from our 
little corner of Michigan that have attended NU.  You just happen to 
disagree with what I may have said and assumed everything else.  
Fortunately, you don't have to pass a loyalty test to post on this 
board.  The only test for posters is their ability to carry on a civil 
discussion.  I'm grateful for that.

Finally, since you are a relatively new poster, you may not realize that 
there is a lot of history on this list too.  I leaned pretty hard on Roy 
this past week for public remarks that I thought were out of character 
for him.  I felt I had some leeway to do that because he and I have 
corresponded for so many years and continue to carry on a private 
correspondence exploring some private aspects of some of our public 
exchanges.  We don't always agree on things, but still respect each 
other.  Similarly, Stephen and I have come a welcome mutual 
understanding with regard to the opportunities this next year present to 
test some difference of opinion that we have about coaching changes. 

You see it is possible to disagree with someone strongly and still 
respect them as a person and their right to hold opinions which may 
differ from yours.  This list is one of the places where we attempt to 
put those ideals into practice.

Again welcome,

Jeff





Robert Rossiter wrote:

>Jeff:
>
>My first post.  Indeed, parents (and potential players) do read and get impressions from what posters say and infer.
>
>I have a problem (as should you as a graduate) with people who have not participated in the athletic process (playing at NU as a scholarship athlete) with negative comments regarding the whole athletic process.  Either buy your tickets and support the program(s) or go on the rant board and offer your comments---judgments---but ease off on the second guessing when you do not have the expertise/experience to come to reasonable conclusions.
>
>
>Robert M. (Bob) Rossiter
>Rossiter Consultants Inc.
>10001 Windstream Drive
>Suite 108
>Columbia, MD 21044-2526
>410.884.3473
>410.884.3483 (Fax)
>410.967.5887 Mobile)
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>
>  
>


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Mon Dec  6 09:29:47 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Mon Dec  6 09:29:50 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412061529.iB6FTlaX020004@romaine.tssi.com>

> Would that be Darrell Royally ?

Yep.

> So it was 24 years between shutouts, which is an interval I would not mind seeing in Evanston.

Few schools would object to such a record.  Moreover they were shut out
4 times during the decade of the 50's, 3 times during the 60's, twice during
the 70's, once during the 80's, and not at all during the 90's.  A nice
descending function, that.  

> Dana Bible suffered all sorts of shutouts, including 8 in his first three seasons (1937-39).  The best of Bible's shutouts was on October 3 1942, when he ventured to Evanston and was shut out by Northwestern 3-0.  That Texas team went on to be Southwest Conference and Cotton Bowl Champions (9-2).

Bible's 1931 Nebraska team also lost to Northwestern, 19-7.  
--
Mike Nolan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Mon Dec  6 10:37:50 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Mon Dec  6 10:43:48 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <41B473FD.4010707@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <004801c4dbb1$ed90ca40$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Hey Bob, don't let Jeff scare you....

He's just a big puddy tat

Except on the field <g>

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:00 AM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
> Welcome to the list.
> 
> I hope this won't be your last post.
> 
> I appreciate your opinion, but let me expand on it a little bit.
> 
> First, this would be a pretty dull place if the only ones who were 
> allowed to post were those who met your defnition (no offense 
> intended 
> to ex-players or ex-coaches).  It would be an online version of 
> Pleasantville, where everyone was the same and thought the same.
> 
> Fortunately it's not like that.  We have Mike Nolan and all 
> of the other 
> list posters to thank for the fact that we can have diversity 
> of opinion 
> without it all collapsing into distasteful rants and the sort of 
> personal attacks like the one you directed at me.  If this level of 
> opinion is still too much for you, I suggest you start your own 
> Pleasantville list and you can apply whatever rules  you 
> would like to 
> that list.
> 
> Second, there is the temptation in your message to engage in a little 
> chest bumping with regard to the experience I bring to the 
> board.  You 
> don't know me.  You don't know anything about my years of playing and 
> coaching.  You don't know anything about the number of kids from our 
> little corner of Michigan that have attended NU.  You just happen to 
> disagree with what I may have said and assumed everything else.  
> Fortunately, you don't have to pass a loyalty test to post on this 
> board.  The only test for posters is their ability to carry 
> on a civil 
> discussion.  I'm grateful for that.
> 
> Finally, since you are a relatively new poster, you may not 
> realize that 
> there is a lot of history on this list too.  I leaned pretty 
> hard on Roy 
> this past week for public remarks that I thought were out of 
> character 
> for him.  I felt I had some leeway to do that because he and I have 
> corresponded for so many years and continue to carry on a private 
> correspondence exploring some private aspects of some of our public 
> exchanges.  We don't always agree on things, but still respect each 
> other.  Similarly, Stephen and I have come a welcome mutual 
> understanding with regard to the opportunities this next year 
> present to 
> test some difference of opinion that we have about coaching changes. 
> 
> You see it is possible to disagree with someone strongly and still 
> respect them as a person and their right to hold opinions which may 
> differ from yours.  This list is one of the places where we 
> attempt to 
> put those ideals into practice.
> 
> Again welcome,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Rossiter wrote:
> 
> >Jeff:
> >
> >My first post.  Indeed, parents (and potential players) do 
> read and get 
> >impressions from what posters say and infer.
> >
> >I have a problem (as should you as a graduate) with people 
> who have not 
> >participated in the athletic process (playing at NU as a scholarship 
> >athlete) with negative comments regarding the whole athletic 
> process.  
> >Either buy your tickets and support the program(s) or go on the rant 
> >board and offer your comments---judgments---but ease off on 
> the second 
> >guessing when you do not have the expertise/experience to come to 
> >reasonable conclusions.
> >
> >
> >Robert M. (Bob) Rossiter
> >Rossiter Consultants Inc.
> >10001 Windstream Drive
> >Suite 108
> >Columbia, MD 21044-2526
> >410.884.3473
> >410.884.3483 (Fax)
> >410.967.5887 Mobile) _______________________________________________
> >nwu-sports site list
> >nwu-sports@tssi.com
> >http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From CHerron604 at aol.com  Mon Dec  6 15:14:38 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Mon Dec  6 15:18:43 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Shutouts
Message-ID: <15F56B61.612B4837.0A143833@aol.com>

The Texas streak without a shutout (282 games from 1980 to 2004) got me wondering how NU had done in this area.

Longest Streak - 1993-1999 (Barnett/Walker) 72 games
(Indiana shut them out in 93, Michigan State in 99)
This streak was better than I thought we might have. 

2nd Place - 1987-1990 (Fran Peay)  30 games
(MSU shut them out in 87, and IU shut them out in 90)

3rd Place - 1961-1964 (Ara/Agase)  29 games
(Bookended by OSU and Michigan)

4th Place - 1969-1972  (Agase)     28 games
(Bookended by UCLA and Michigan)

5th Place - 1939-1942   (Pappy Waldorf)  26 games
(Notre Dame (and 3 others) shut them out in 39, and the Great Lakes Naval Training Station shut them out in 1942)

Current - 2003-    (Randy Walker)   20 games

RW has been shut out 3 times in 5 years (MSU, PSU and OSU).  GB was shutout twice in 7 years (Boston College in 92 and Indiana in 93), and not shut out in his last 63 games.

Surprisingly, Francis Peay was only shut out twice in 6 years, MSU in 87 and Indiana (Again !) in 1990.

The legendary coaches of the 20's and 30's were suffering quite a few shutouts (to be fair, they were not giving up many points either).  The offensive nadir was probably 1933, when Dick Hanley was shut out 7 times in 8 games, en route to a 1-5-2 record.  Two games were scoreless ties, however.  The 1933 team scored 25 points (all against Indiana), and gave up only 42.

The 1933 team was the end of a string of 6 years in which NU outscored their opponents 698-332 en route to a 29-17-4 record.  For comparison, this year's team scored 295 points and gave up 342 en route to 6-6.

Chuck Herron   Tech '85  

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Mon Dec  6 15:22:14 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Mon Dec  6 15:22:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] No Blue/Grey game
Message-ID: <200412062122.iB6LMEdc022901@romaine.tssi.com>

The Blue/Grey game has been cancelled for 2004 because it does not have
a sponsor.  That's the 2nd time in 3 years the game has been cancelled.
(The organizers would like to move it to the Saturday after the bowl
games in the hopes of attracting more players.)

Any Cats who were hoping to play in it to attract the attention of NFL 
scouts are out of luck.
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Mon Dec  6 16:04:16 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Mon Dec  6 16:09:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Shutouts
In-Reply-To: <15F56B61.612B4837.0A143833@aol.com>
Message-ID: <l03130301bdda879aabbd@[66.170.161.45]>

Love you stats gurus on the list! Seriously - you guys should go work for
the networks to have that info handy during those blowout games to give
Musburger something to talk about.:) I love reading thru that stuff!

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Mon Dec  6 16:19:25 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Mon Dec  6 16:24:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <41B473FD.4010707@hilgraeve.com>
References: <000801c4d98f$ebd43440$c002a8c0@rmrossiter>
	<000801c4d98f$ebd43440$c002a8c0@rmrossiter>
Message-ID: <l03130302bdda884ed607@[66.170.161.45]>

>Welcome to the list.
>I hope this won't be your last post.

I'll second that -- we can get a tad excited at times, but I don't think
we've ever tried to suppress views. Hopefully not.

>other.  Similarly, Stephen and I have come a welcome mutual
>understanding with regard to the opportunities this next year present to
>test some difference of opinion that we have about coaching changes.

Yes - we've come to a nice little agreement that coaches coming off 6 win
seasons won't be fired.:) But seriously, we all have high hopes for the NU
program ... we just differ on the variables along that path, such as time
alloted.

And I'll be the first to admit that I have different standards at different
levels. For the pros, all's fair in love and war (I'm a Saints fan ... I
was a big Haslett fan in year one with the division title ... since then,
he's lost the team ... there's no rebuilding with recruits and such in the
NFL - gotta win now) and boo 'em if they don't come to play. No problem
there.

And at a lot of schools, I'd pull the trigger quickly too (I've been a big
critic of Mack Brown for years - any truth to the rumor that OU threw its
weight in support of a poll bump for the BCS bid just so they could keep
Mack from being fired?:) ) ... but I do think that NU is different. And
it's not the Notre Dame dellusion of being "special" and then axing a coach
three years into a rebuilding process -- it's that we do have a different
set of rules and a big historical disadvantage, so it's not "rebuilding"
but "building from the ground up" ... and that takes time.

But again ... just my opinion. I've been accused of having Purple colored
glasses and of being too harsh (the 2001 season was the only time I've
really felt disappointed and let down by the Cats and I did feel that some
players had "quit" on the season). But all part of the fun.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From NEONRye at aol.com  Mon Dec  6 16:34:49 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Mon Dec  6 16:36:21 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] John Pickens
Message-ID: <2b.67d75f3f.2ee63889@aol.com>

Don't know if this news has been posted or not:
 
Jewell Pickens, the mother of John Pickens, told me this afternoon that  John 
has been selected to go to the Hula Bowl.  Luis Castillo was also  named, but 
can't go because of medical reasons.  She also said she thinks  that Noah 
Herron is going to the Las Vegas Bowl.  With the Blue-Grey  Classic cancelled, 
that cuts down on the number of all-star slots that are  available.
 
Believe it or not, Mrs. Pickens works in the same building as I  do in 
Manhattan, 16 floors below me.  We met at the Mark Murphy Event held  around the 
corner in NYC several months ago by the NU CLUB OF NY and have stayed  in touch, 
on and off, since that time, commiserating about our building  owners.  She is 
a truly lovely human being, and her husband also seemed  like a super guy.  I 
have no doubt that John will be successful, whether he  can pursue his dream 
to play in the NFL, or using his degree from the School of  Communications.  
Just another reason why rooting for the Wildcats is so  rewarding, albeit 
sometimes frustrating.
 
Paul Levinson
From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Mon Dec  6 16:31:43 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Mon Dec  6 16:36:54 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <200412060723.iB67NFCj016072@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <l03130304bdda8b8697a3@[66.170.161.45]>

> Exposed at the end of the season?  They had a grand total of 6 points
> scored on them in their last three games, against admittedly mediocre

I meant to say "toward the end" -- ATM and Okie State moved the ball up
and down on the Sooners vaunted D.

As for those last 2-3 games ... it's kind of funny to see the polls and
pundits say that OU really emerged and proved that they were the #2 team at
the end of the season (yeah, I'm looking your way Corso:) ) because they
whacked Colorado and Nebraska down the stretch while Auburn had smaller
margins against Tennessee and Alabama (and crushed Georgia, btw). Well,
Oklahoma SHOULD have whacked Colorado and Nebraska. Beating those teams big
at the end didn't prove anything ... watching the Aggies control the game
vs. OU until their QB went down says more. Needing late heroics to stay
unbeaten is something Auburn had to resort to only once this year with LSU
and the magical goalposts ... and that was in September. OU had a few
narrow escapes late in the season and USC -- given a free pass for last
year's snub -- had the closest shaves of all with the Cal thriller and that
horrible non-fumble call vs. UCLA that was a 10-point swing.

> They also shut out Texas, the first time the Horns been shut out since,
> what, the Truman administration?  (On that basis alone I think Cal got
> shafted Royally.)

Drumbeat!:)

> winning.  I also think USC has a soft underbelly in its defense, far
> more so than the Sooners do.

UCLA may have exposed a weakness on special teams, and the Trojans do
start slow at times ... but I think both these offenses have power and
explosiveness, but I like the SC defense a lot more.

But a couple of great coaches ... will be interesting to see what they
have planned with a month's preparation. And it's a promising matchup,
don't get me wrong ... it's what everybody wanted at the start of the
season. Kind of how folks wanted to see OU-Miami a few years back, but
they never met in the bowls. USC and OU are the two premier programs over
the last 2-3 years. Now we get to see them match up. I just wasn't a big
believer in the Big XII last year and question OU's defense this year
(their offense, however, is awesome and kept them in those ATM and OSU
games).

> The Orange Bowl should feature two Heisman champions, possibly in one
> uniform and it will have the top 3 finishers in this year's Heisman race.
> I doubt that's ever happened.

It might have the top four after Bush made his case on Saturday.

> I guess we'll find out who's reading it all wrong in January, but I
> think it'll be something like OU 31 USC 14.

My early pick: USC 34, OU 21 ... then again, should Utah lure Norm Chow
away from SC and he doesn't coach the bowl game ...

> Auburn-Va Tech is harder to read, Tennessee showed that Auburn does
> have some weaknesses, I just don't know if the Hokies are the right

I don't see why folks were so down on Auburn for a 10-point win. They
played the toughest opponent of the top 3 on Saturday and were playing the
Vols for a second time (always tough to beat a team twice) ... they
dominated the first half, laxed in the second but still won by double
digits. And they absolutely demolished the Vols earlier IN Knoxville. I
just think the Tigers are the most sound all-around team in the nation.
We'll never know if that's true or not.

As for VaTech, I wouldn't underestimate them either. Don't forget that
they had USC on the ropes, leading in the fourth quarter before they let
it slip away. Their inexperience showed again in a fluke loss to NC State
- otherwise, they've rolled and that win at Miami was impressive.

> finishing 3rd.   Do they think they can sway the AP voters, who haven'
> t seen all that excited about Auburn all season?  I don't think that's

Well, since VaTech and SC did play, I guess their best shot would be a
rout of VaTech with SC barely winning. And not barely winning in a classic
way (OSU/Miami Fiesta Bowl) but barely winning in an UGLY way (that OU/FSU
Orange Bowl ... what was it, 6-2 in the fourth?). But yeah - it would take
a miracle. They'd have had a better chance if they faced Utah in the bowl game.

> possible this year, unfortunately.  And that might open the door for
> an upset.

The B(C)S folks are gonna be big cheerleaders for Louisville, Pitt and
VaTech so we don't have four unbeatens at the end of the year.

And to go along with our list coaching experiment, it's gonna be real
interesting to watch the attendance figures at the bowl games this year.
With all the MAC teams and mid-majors who don't have huge fan bases, will
the casual football fans still show up? And with a collective shoulder
shrug of excitement of the big bowl lineup on January 1 ... will we have a
lot of bowls in front of half empty stadiums?

Will Cal fans who already booked up Pasadena rent a car and drive to San
Diego? Will the horde of Cheeseheads, making their own Rose Bowl
reservations a month ago but willing to settle for Orlando perhaps, head to
Tampa? Will UGa fans? LSU might have made more sense in the Cotton than
Citrus ... Utah and Texas have promised to sell seats, but will Michigan
fans head west a second year for a non-Rose Bowl Rose Bowl and will Pitt
bring anybody? And SC finally has filled home stands this year, but will
their annoying band and even more insufferable fans head cross country to
Miami (they didn't two years ago) or will it be a Sooner Nation sea of
crimson in the Orange Bowl?

Or for the game Mike's waiting for -- will anybody show up in Boise?:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From sundevilpeg at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  6 16:49:08 2004
From: sundevilpeg at hotmail.com (peg wolfe)
Date: Mon Dec  6 16:50:56 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <004801c4dbb1$ed90ca40$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <BAY17-F5ACE4935A1A5902134BB8A7B40@phx.gbl>

I love a good rhubarb!  ;o)

- sundevilpeg, AKA peg wolfe, currently up in arms about Cal getting jobbed 
by the evil BCS Cabal

>From: "Roy S. Lamberton" <rstetson@capps-assoc.com>
>To: "'Jeff Beamsley'" <jeffb@hilgraeve.com>, <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
>Subject: RE: [NU Sports] (no subject)
>Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:37:50 -0500
>
>Hey Bob, don't let Jeff scare you....
>
>He's just a big puddy tat
>
>Except on the field <g>
>
>rsl
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
>Computer Applications & Support Associates
>and Publisher of Purple Reign,
>The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
>(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
>AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
>
>=========================================
>No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
>itself to prosperity...Think about it.
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com
> > [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
> > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:00 AM
> > To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> > Subject: Re: [NU Sports] (no subject)
> >
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > Welcome to the list.
> >
> > I hope this won't be your last post.
> >
> > I appreciate your opinion, but let me expand on it a little bit.
> >
> > First, this would be a pretty dull place if the only ones who were
> > allowed to post were those who met your defnition (no offense
> > intended
> > to ex-players or ex-coaches).  It would be an online version of
> > Pleasantville, where everyone was the same and thought the same.
> >
> > Fortunately it's not like that.  We have Mike Nolan and all
> > of the other
> > list posters to thank for the fact that we can have diversity
> > of opinion
> > without it all collapsing into distasteful rants and the sort of
> > personal attacks like the one you directed at me.  If this level of
> > opinion is still too much for you, I suggest you start your own
> > Pleasantville list and you can apply whatever rules  you
> > would like to
> > that list.
> >
> > Second, there is the temptation in your message to engage in a little
> > chest bumping with regard to the experience I bring to the
> > board.  You
> > don't know me.  You don't know anything about my years of playing and
> > coaching.  You don't know anything about the number of kids from our
> > little corner of Michigan that have attended NU.  You just happen to
> > disagree with what I may have said and assumed everything else.
> > Fortunately, you don't have to pass a loyalty test to post on this
> > board.  The only test for posters is their ability to carry
> > on a civil
> > discussion.  I'm grateful for that.
> >
> > Finally, since you are a relatively new poster, you may not
> > realize that
> > there is a lot of history on this list too.  I leaned pretty
> > hard on Roy
> > this past week for public remarks that I thought were out of
> > character
> > for him.  I felt I had some leeway to do that because he and I have
> > corresponded for so many years and continue to carry on a private
> > correspondence exploring some private aspects of some of our public
> > exchanges.  We don't always agree on things, but still respect each
> > other.  Similarly, Stephen and I have come a welcome mutual
> > understanding with regard to the opportunities this next year
> > present to
> > test some difference of opinion that we have about coaching changes.
> >
> > You see it is possible to disagree with someone strongly and still
> > respect them as a person and their right to hold opinions which may
> > differ from yours.  This list is one of the places where we
> > attempt to
> > put those ideals into practice.
> >
> > Again welcome,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Rossiter wrote:
> >
> > >Jeff:
> > >
> > >My first post.  Indeed, parents (and potential players) do
> > read and get
> > >impressions from what posters say and infer.
> > >
> > >I have a problem (as should you as a graduate) with people
> > who have not
> > >participated in the athletic process (playing at NU as a scholarship
> > >athlete) with negative comments regarding the whole athletic
> > process.
> > >Either buy your tickets and support the program(s) or go on the rant
> > >board and offer your comments---judgments---but ease off on
> > the second
> > >guessing when you do not have the expertise/experience to come to
> > >reasonable conclusions.
> > >
> > >
> > >Robert M. (Bob) Rossiter
> > >Rossiter Consultants Inc.
> > >10001 Windstream Drive
> > >Suite 108
> > >Columbia, MD 21044-2526
> > >410.884.3473
> > >410.884.3483 (Fax)
> > >410.967.5887 Mobile) _______________________________________________
> > >nwu-sports site list
> > >nwu-sports@tssi.com
> > >http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nwu-sports site list
> > nwu-sports@tssi.com
> > http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From tbng at suscom.net  Mon Dec  6 17:43:49 2004
From: tbng at suscom.net (Dennis W. Brandt)
Date: Mon Dec  6 17:45:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Annual Cat Football Report Card
Message-ID: <002c01c4dbed$6f46cea0$88e417d1@DENNISMACHINE>

Offense

QB - B-  Baz is heady running the two-minute drill and mobile enough to 
concern defenses.  He had a solid year but must become more consistent and a 
more accurate passer.  We can live with the absence of a rifle arm, but he 
must improve passing efficiency (9thin the conference, 53% completions). 
Who is his backup?


RB - B  Noah Herron was a powerful runner who found - and made - holes even 
though he lacks NFL-caliber speed.  (But his pass-catching skill should get 
him on the field Sundays.)  Terrell Jordan provided a good changeup and 
probably will be the man next year barring some freshman phenom.

WR - B-  Depth is their strength; lack of a consistent deep threat and 
slippery hands are weaknesses.  None is a  "horse," but Fields and Thompson 
may develop defense-stretching ability.


TE - C  We actually used one this year but not enough to fairly grade him 
more than average.

OL - B-  They had some fine games (e.g., Penn State) but never became the 
dominant force their size and experience suggested they should.  This is 
reflected in our so-so red zone offense (8th in the conference) even with 
Hoffman running behind them.


CONCLUSION:  The offense was good enough to win the Big 10 but inconsistent 
and too stoppable, not to mention self-stoppable.  Too often we had 
2nd-and-3 only to end up punting.  We were last in the conference in 
time-of-possession on a team ranked second in both passing and rushing, and 
it wasn't because we were hitting 80-yarders all the time.


Defense

DL - C-  Improved from the past few years, especially against the run, but 
that is faint praise.  Pass rushing improved after Loren Howard returned but 
was not good enough to bail out that secondary.  A full season of healthy 
Howard and a two-armed Luis Castillo should have raised this grade, but 
questions remain about the other positions and depth.


LB - C+  Tim McGarigle is the next Pat Fitzgerald but hardly Lavar 
Arrington.  As in years past, this position is the defense's strongest but 
not good enough to make up for other deficiencies.

DB - D-  Improved, but after the Hawaii debacle, I was tempted to flunk them 
again.  They were at the mercy of every decent pass offense.  (Don't say 
Purdue;  Orton's head was on cockeyed that day.) Ohio's "Mr. Football" had 
one interception in two years and was burned more often than Grandma's 
woodpile.  The entire secondary missed many one-on-one tackles that turned 
quick-outs into big gainers.


CONCLUSION:  Too many yards, too many points, too little skill.  We'll 
struggle to win with another defense like this year's version unless we get 
the Philadelphia Eagles to play offense.

Special Teams

PK - F  Yes, we got better the last two games, but it was so awful 
throughout the season that no better grade is possible.  Not only could we 
not kick field goals, Hoffman had more kickoffs out-of-bounds (5) than 
touchbacks (3).


P - C  We punted about average and had too much practice at it.

KR - C-  We didn't start outside the 30-yard-line nearly as often as the 
opposition, but at least we didn't fumble much.

PR - C+  Jeff Backes is a solid punt returner, and we missed him when he was 
out.  The rest, however, were not so good.



Kick coverage - We covered opposing kick returners like drunken matadors and 
ranked last in the conference.

CONCLUSION:  Except for Backes's punt returns and average punting, special 
teams play was a virtual disaster and the cause of several losses.

OVERALL:  The team rebounded after a difficult start and came through in the 
clutch in three overtime games (TCU, too, except for Mr. Hoffman. With 
instant replay to review that terrible game-closing interception call in the 
Hawaii game, they might have played a fifth OT game.)  The Ohio State game 
was a JOY!  On the down side, penalties were an enormous problem; so was 
playing to the level of their opponent.  I believe this team may have had 
more overall physical talent than the '95 team, but they didn't show it. 
That spells c-o-a-c-h-i-n-g, which remains a question mark that only winning 
will convert to an exclamation point.

Can't wait until next season. 

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Mon Dec  6 19:16:59 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Mon Dec  6 19:17:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Shutouts (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412070116.iB71GxuY024710@romaine.tssi.com>

> The 1933 team was the end of a string of 6 years in which NU outscored their opponents 698-332 en route to a 29-17-4 record.  For comparison, this year's team scored 295 points and gave up 342 en route to 6-6.

Scoring 698 points over 50 games means they were averaging just under
14 points per game.  

Looking at all of the games in 1-A for the last several decades, the 
average score has been creeping up over the years.  In the 70's it was 
around 20, now it's around 26.  

I think the overtime rule is a factor in this.  Though the average has 
been creeping up slowly for over 30 years, it jumped by 2 points per 
game the year the overtime rule went in.  

The Cats contribted more than their share to that effect this year.  :-)
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Mon Dec  6 20:25:06 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Mon Dec  6 20:32:18 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Something's rotten in the BCS ...
In-Reply-To: <BAY17-F5ACE4935A1A5902134BB8A7B40@phx.gbl>
References: <004801c4dbb1$ed90ca40$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
	<BAY17-F5ACE4935A1A5902134BB8A7B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49514.66.170.162.224.1102386306.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

Read on the wire this afternoon that the Pac 10 commissioner and Cal coach
are asking for the coach's poll votes to be made public.

Why? Well, it seems that some coaches dropped the Bears this week to 7th
or even 8th. The previous week, no voter had Cal below $6.

I can see swapping Cal and Texas -- even though I wouldn't after a
10-point win that could have been higher if they hadn't taken a knee at a
tough place in Southern Miss. But dropping them to 8th? That doesn't pass
the smell test.

Hmm ... between SC last year and this Cal thing, the Pac 10 may indeed be
fed up with the B(C)S BS ... let's break away Big Ten and Pac 10 ... let
Fox have the BS and keep our Rose Bowl on ABC.:)

Lots of college football news out west today ... UCLA appears ready to get
a nice apology (lots of good that'll do) for the blown fumble calls in the
SC game (at least the UCLA coach didn't go all Kansas on the refs after
the game and give the BCS another fire to put out this week).

And more notable to us midwest folk ... Tedford signed an extension at
Cal. Taking another rumored candidate out of the Notre Dame hunt. For
those who have old newspaper piles, grab the Trib's sports cover from
Saturday. It's a huge color picture on the top half of the Irish logo with
a big ole' egg on the face. An excellent framing suggestion for Christmas
gifts.:) Meyer? Gone. Ferentz? Signed a big extension. Tedford? Ditto.
Holtz???

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From michael.vance at att.net  Mon Dec  6 21:16:37 2004
From: michael.vance at att.net (Michael Vance)
Date: Mon Dec  6 21:17:28 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] BCS ...
In-Reply-To: <52521.66.170.160.202.1102313600.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com
 >
References: < <5.2.0.9.0.20041205205512.03d68e08@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
	<20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
	<20041205.143059.24790.67248@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>
	<5.2.0.9.0.20041205205512.03d68e08@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041206210825.03da1570@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 12/6/2004 01:13 AM, sjtruog@jorsm.com wrote:
> > OK, while I empathize with Auburn, I still have to ask the question: In
> > the absence of a playoff, how do you resolve this issue?
>
>Just because the old system and the present system both spit out the same
>bogus results doesn't mean you have to pick one or the other. There has to
>be a better way, and Urban Meyer pretty much said that everyone knows what
>to do but they're afraid to say it -- playoff.

But my question was in the context of accepting -- reluctantly, perhaps 
only forcibly -- the basic premise of the BCS, that it is both desirable 
and possible to produce a true national champion within the framework of 
the bowl system.  The presidents have shown no inclination toward backing 
down on the issue of a playoff.  So my question remains: is it possible to 
make this system work?  Or is that basic assumption so flawed that it's 
impossible?

>But again, if we have to pick either/or between present and old ... I'll
>vote for the old system.

I'm with you there.  As I said, tradition is a big part of what separates 
the college game from the NFL.

> > Since it's only one game and two teams, I think it's better that the
> > formula is out there in public for all to see before the season
> > starts.  Can you imagine the uproar if a "selection committee" decided
>
>Why not? It's worked well in basketball. Yeah, there's some controversy
>every year, but not the stupid kind like the BCS contains (the NCAA
>pairings get people talking and is fun controversy that disappears when
>games start ...

That's because the field is so large in the basketball tournament that no 
one could rationally argue that any snubbed team has a decent 
shot.  They're arguing for pride and for a slice of tournament 
revenue.  Once the games start, most of those bubble teams, had they been 
included, would be out the first weekend.  Not so when you're talking about 
a two or four (or possibly even eight) team field.

>the BCS is frustrating and keeps lingering to next year as
>an annoyance like something everyone realizes is broken but no one wants
>to fix). A committee could take into effect things like BCS rankings,
>strength of schedule, quality wins, performance down the stretch, etc.

All of those factors are already included in the BCS rankings, because they 
all influence the polls and the computer rankings to some extent.  You're 
forgetting that the versions of the BCS formula that included those factors 
separately produced some much worse results than this year.  Including SoS, 
quality wins, and losses as separate components overemphasized them.

>Right now, we basically have SC vs. OU because SC and OU were #1 and #2 in
>preseason and Auburn was #18 or #20.
>
>Can you make a case to exclude OU or SC? Probably not. But you can sure
>make a case for including an unbeaten SEC team that's defeated three top
>10 teams and only had one close call ... back in September. A team that's
>been dominant on offense and defense and been consistent week after week.

A team whose SoS was heavy at both ends.  Louisiana Tech (5-3 WAC, 6-6 
overall), Louisiana-Monroe (4-3 Sun Belt, 5-6 overall) and Citadel (a 
2-5/3-7 I-AA team) do a lot to offset the wins over Tennessee, UGa, and LSU 
in terms of average SoS.  It doesn't make the individual efforts of those 
wins any less impressive, but it's the week-in week-out grind of tough 
(usually conference) games that shows the true mettle of a team.  Auburn 
had their game against Citadel between their games against LSU and 
Tennessee.  You could argue that having an easy game is better than an off 
week because it keeps the team focused without expending too much effort.

>look at the seven
>BCS years and it's far easier to find four deserving teams than to limit
>it to just two.

No argument for that.  :-)

> > So given the above stated basic assumption of the BCS, including the
> > implication that a playoff is out of the question, I challenge anyone to
> > come up with something better.
>
>Like I said, I don't think you have to pick Bad Option I *OR* Bad Option
>II ... why not aim higher?

I'd love to.  But I'm still trying to figure out a way to make it work 
given what the presidents are giving us.

>But if you want to reform the B(C)S, a couple suggestions ...
>
>- Get rid of the Big East's automatic bid

I'm not sure when this will happen, but I think that it eventually 
will.  But if they stick with the current rule, it'll take at least three 
more years, possibly four.

>- Institute a selection committee of conference and bowl reps to decide
>the BCS bowls. They will take polls, computer rankings and everything else
>into advisement, and the BCS Poll can still be used to determine who gets
>a bid, but let someone with sense decide matchups, so we could at least
>have Auburn  vs. Utah this year. Or avoid things like the Miami-FSU
>rematch (ugly game) last year ... the coaches didn't want it, the bowls
>didn't want it, but they were stuck with it.

The individual bowls' selection committees will never let their power be 
supplanted by another committee.  If they were really interested in doing 
what was right for college football instead of what was right for their 
individual bowls, then these matchups would already be occurring.  I think 
that they accepted the rotating NC game and rotating selection order that 
goes with it because there was no other way to do it.  But they still have 
the power every four years, and they still have it each year when it's 
their turn to pick.

>- Add some requirement about winning a league title as necessary for being
>in the title game

I honestly thought they had implemented this one, but a look at the BCS 
Media Guide proved otherwise.  I agree.  Although at the moment, the 
official rules, as spelled out in the media guide, even allow for the 
possibility of both #1 and #2 being at-large teams.  "At-large" includes 
teams from non-BCS conferences, but we all know the likelihood of that 
would be slim.  I think the only way we could've gotten there this year 
would have been if USC, Oklahoma, Auburn, and possibly Cal had all lost 
their final games, vaulting Texas and Utah into the top two spots.  Even if 
USC had gotten blown out and either OK or AU lost in a squeaker, so that 
one of the latter two remained at the #2 spot, they wouldn't be conference 
champs.  Still, entertaining to think about.  :-)

>- And I like your idea of 50% poll and 50% computer for the formula ...
>but they need to also factor in things like SOS and quality wins that they
>took out

I've argued against this above already.  The only reason they should do 
this is if they think that the current crop of computer rankings don't take 
them into account enough.  And if that's the case, then find different 
computer rankings.

Incidentally, how much would it have affected this year if they counted all 
of the computers instead of dropping a team's best and worst?

>ROSE: Michigan vs. Cal - Pasadena's happy, great game (and sorry Jim, but
>I think Texas is a much tougher matchup for Michigan than Cal)
>FIESTA: Virginia Tech vs. Texas - Good game and fans thrilled to be in BCS
>SUGAR: Auburn vs. Utah - The "other" unbeatens
>ORANGE: Oklahoma vs. USC - Our "title" game

Which, while I agree this is a better field of games, still doesn't solve 
the Auburn issue.  Not without a...

>..."plus one" format couldn't hurt ... it'd be easy to implement and
>could pave the way to a playoff later.

"Plus one" is the closest that we're ever going to get to a playoff, and I 
don't see it coming anytime soon.  It was supposedly considered this past 
spring, but I don't think it's going to see the light of day again unless 
the bowls successfully use their $$$ leverage somehow.

>I love college football - it's still far more exciting than any other
>sport and the regular season does indeed mean more than anywhere else ...
>I like controversy and discussion as much as the next guy. But like I
>said, the BCS isn't generating the fun buzz March Madness does. It's more
>of an annoying visit from an unwelcome guest every year that keeps getting
>worse with age.

I agree that it's really screwed things up for the average alumni fan.  But 
the money that has been generated by the corporate interests is what has 
kept it alive more than anything.  They know that a lot of alumni will keep 
coming, but if they don't, the corporate skybox set will snap up the 
tickets, just like the Super Bowl.  For every alum who decides to stay home 
because he (or she) is just sick of the system, there's a salesperson out 
there who will use tickets to the NC game as leverage to close a deal.

I think that we're in agreement in principle on what *should* be done.  But 
as long as the presidents maintain their position on a playoff, we need to 
either go back to the old system, or figure out how to tweak this one to 
the point where it works more often.  I'm not convinced that it didn't work 
this year.  The arguments for both Oklahoma and Auburn are all pretty 
convincing.  You're right, the main thing in Oklahoma's favor is that they 
started at #2.  With the polls, meeting high expectations is better than 
shattering lower ones.  That's always been true; it has nothing to do with 
the BCS.


Michael, CAS '91
mailto:michael@vance.com

From michael.vance at att.net  Mon Dec  6 21:20:59 2004
From: michael.vance at att.net (Michael Vance)
Date: Mon Dec  6 21:21:48 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Zook to Illinois
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041206221835.03d9f6d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-illinois-zook&prov=ap&type=lgns

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1940034


Michael, CAS '91
mailto:michael@vance.com

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec  7 08:56:06 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec  7 09:01:57 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/7
Message-ID: <007101c4dc6c$e2bea4a0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
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** Happy Birthday Luke Donald Edition **

On the "Day of Infamy" and the Day Delaware became the First State 217 years
ago...
Honors of the Wildcats, more Commits in Recruiting, Basketball facing a lineup
change?,

                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Northwestern Names Hilton Garden Inn Athletes of the Week 

http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/120604aaa.html 


Ryan Lang of wrestling and Suzanne Morrison of women's basketball

Men's BASKETBALL

     The latest NU Wildcat Promotion...
     Watch Northwestern Challenge Top-Ranked Illinois As A Super Fan Of The Game
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120604aaf.html 

     Men's Basketball Weekly Release - December 6
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120604aad.html 

     Chicago State played Illinois last night - They Lost
     Hitting the heights
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041206illinigamer,1,64
81437.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Commentary:

     daCoach: Are the Cats in a Lineup Holding Pattern?
      http://northwestern.Scout.com/2/327497.html 

Looking Ahead:

     De Paul
     DePaul 88, IUPUI 67
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/071sd3.htm 
     + Greer puts on show in romp
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041206depaulgamer,1,84
5335.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Demons learn how to share
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-demon07.html 
     + DePaul shares in this victory
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38328107 

     Seton Hall
     Latest from USA Today
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigeast/setonhall.htm 


     Arizona State
     Arizona State Tops Fairleigh Dickinson
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120604aaa.html 
     + Fairly unimpressive win for Devils
      http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/1207asumen1207.html 

     Latest from USA Today
      http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/pac10/arizonast.htm 

     Robert Morris


     Delaware State
     Hunter, Williams lead Hornets past UMES
      http://www.dsc.edu/athletics/index.php?action=fullnews&id=102 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Taking Exams

FOOTBALL

     Murphy's Mark: Seasons Come to an End For Football and Soccer
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/120604aad.html 

     Michigan State and Northwestern Split Final Weekly Football Awards
      http://bigten.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120604aaa.html 
     + Brett Basanez, Tim McGarigle Claim Big Ten Player of the Week Honors
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120604aaa.html 

     the last trivia question for the 2004 season!
      http://hailtopurple.com/features/triv4l05.html 


Commentary:

     Gotera: Hawaii: Not a paradise after all
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/dg120604.html 
     Carroll: Players get lost in BCS shuffle
 
http://nwitimes.com/articles/2004/12/07/sports/indiana_prep_sports/d4a52d7c6d0e9
49686256f630008cd4c.txt 
     HailToPurple: 14th greatest NU football game ever
      http://hailtopurple.com/cats4l05a.html 

Big 10

     Illinois hooks its man-Zook
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041206cfbillini,1,3945
57.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Ace recruiter must prove he can coach to win in Hooterville
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay07.html 

RECRUITING

     Another Commit for the Cats!
     Brendan Smith: 'Cats bag East Coast athlete
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327269&nid=1201306&fhn=1 

     Mike Kafka: Chicago QB back from Northwestern
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327260&nid=1222093&fhn=1 
     Justin Thornton: Returns From Lawrence
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327256&nid=1272629&fhn=1 

     Craig Moore: First Game tonight against Northwest Prep

SWIMMING

     Northwestern Signs Four to National Letters of Intent
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-swim/spec-rel/120604aac.html 

Miscellany

     Stewart Mandel: Ranking the bowl games 1-28
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/stewart_mandel/12/06/bowl.rankings
/index.html 

Alumni

     Luke Donald: As we said yesterday, Happy Birthday Luke!

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From CHerron604 at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 13:52:49 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Tue Dec  7 13:56:53 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND Coaching Vacancy
Message-ID: <5C7A790C.45342F3D.0A143833@aol.com>

I was reading this with interest, until I realized that it was 3 years old...

http://espn.go.com/ncf/s/2001/1202/1288667.html

Got me to wondering - Are any of these men still candidates ?

- O'Leary ?  The lies have to knock him out, plus 0-11 this year at UCF.

- Ty ?  Ironically, probably the best man for the job right now.

- Coughlin ?  6-10 in 2002, 5-7 this year after a 4-1 start, but college credentials are very solid.  Question is - would Notre Dame pay what the Maras are paying ?

- Nutt ?  9-5 in 2002, 9-4 in 2003, 5-6 this year - but can success at Arkansas translate to South Bend, or are the academic standards just too different ?

- Alvarez ?  8-6, 7-6, 10-2 this year, but I have already seen absolute denials out of Madison, where Barry now has total control.

- Neuheisel ?  Discredited

- Stoops ?  12-2, 12-2, 12-0.  But why would anyone ever leave Norman ?

- Tiller ?  7-6, 9-4, 7-4.  If I were looking for a coach, I would certainly consider him.

- Ferentz ?  11-2, 10-3, 9-2.  Same as Tiller, even more so.

- Meyer ?  Already taken.

- Seifert ?  Seems to enjoy being retired.  Also saw somewhere where he makes 5 figures for speaking engagements...why take on the headaches ?

- Walker ?  3-9, 6-7, 6-6.  Hmmm

- Murphy ?  7-3, 7-3, 10-0.  Academics are obviously not a problem, but can he recruit, and deal with a D-I schedule ?

What if we look at 'peer' institutions (not sure ND would admit that they have any peers) ?

Cal      Jeff Tedford  10-1  re-upped at Cal
Stanford Buddy Teevens 4-7   out
Rice     Ken Hatfield  3-8
NU       RW            6-6
Vandy    Bobby Johnson 2-9
Duke     Ted Roof      2-9
Navy     Paul Johnson  9-2
BC       Tom O'Brien   8-3

Looking at both lists, I come up with a fall-back list of

Tiller
Ferentz
Walker
O'Brien

Remembering that the best ND coaches had solid D-I pedigrees before they got there:

Leahy (Boston College)
Ara (NU)
Devine (Mizzou)
Holtz (Minnesota)

Does anybody still think (3 years later) that ND might even consider RW ?

Chuck Herron  Tech '85

From cyrilku at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  7 15:38:02 2004
From: cyrilku at yahoo.com (Cyril S. Ku)
Date: Tue Dec  7 15:39:13 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND Coaching Vacancy
In-Reply-To: <5C7A790C.45342F3D.0A143833@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041207213802.47344.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com>

--- CHerron604@aol.com wrote:

> 
> Does anybody still think (3 years later) that ND
> might even consider RW ?

Might be, the following article has RW linked to
the ND job. Scroll down to the last but one paragraph.
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1940568

Cyril Ku



		
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From warneradams at comcast.net  Tue Dec  7 16:47:53 2004
From: warneradams at comcast.net (WarnerAdams)
Date: Tue Dec  7 16:48:32 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Non-conference scheduling - redux - redux
In-Reply-To: <20041130.052135.20951.10300@webmail27.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <FAEKJPMOLIIOGGOLIKLBGECIDGAA.warneradams@comcast.net>

Earlier discussions in here have me thinking that I would prefer better
nonconference games and a 5-6 season than lame nonconference games and a 6-5
trip to Motor City.  What do others think?  I live in Evanston now so I may
be thinking parochially.



From NEONRye at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 17:18:22 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Tue Dec  7 17:22:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] So Maybe We Are Better Off Out Of The Bowl Picture
Message-ID: <82.1ce368fd.2ee7943e@aol.com>

>From an AP Wire Story on AOL:
 
Headline:   
Bowl Teams Falling Short in Graduating  Student-Athletes
Study Says  Nearly Half of Bowl-Bound Schools Graduate Less Than Half Their  
Players
 
Lead Paragraph:  Twenty-seven of the 56 schools with bowl-bound football 
teams graduated less  than half their players, a study released Tuesday shows.
 
Paul Levinson

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Tue Dec  7 17:29:47 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Tue Dec  7 17:29:48 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Non-conference scheduling - redux - redux (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412072329.iB7NTlJA002751@romaine.tssi.com>

> Earlier discussions in here have me thinking that I would prefer better
> nonconference games and a 5-6 season than lame nonconference games and a 6-5
> trip to Motor City.  What do others think?  I live in Evanston now so I may
> be thinking parochially.

The original purpose of non-conference games was to get the teams ready
for their conference games.

I would favor a school with a winning conference record against 8 or more 
in-conference opponents being bowl-eligible regardless of the school's
non-conference record.  
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Tue Dec  7 17:46:44 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Tue Dec  7 17:51:42 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] B(C)S fun with stats ...
Message-ID: <l03130300bddbec361084@[66.170.161.38]>

Well I'm not the expert on NU history or Texas shutouts (though I'm glad
someone on the list is because I love stuff like that) ... but I do have a
habit of doodling during boring lectures at school and those doodles
usually concern college football around this time of the year:) ...

So for our BCS fun today, more STATZ!

So much for conference ties to bowls ...

* In the past four years (one BCS cycle), the Rose Bowl has had two visits
from Pac 10 teams, two visits from Big Ten teams and THREE visits from Big
XII teams. Only one of the four years featured the traditional Pac 10/Big
Ten matchup and that probably shouldn't have happened with USC #1 in both
polls yet out of the title game.

But other bowls haven't fared better ...

* The Fiesta Bowl (supposedly with Big XII ties) has featured as many
visits from Big Ten and Big East teams (2 each) in the past four years as
visits from Big XII teams. If you extend it to five years, you get the Pac
10 also joins the bunch with 2 visits ... and if you count Notre Dame as
part of the Big Least (as they do for other bowls), that conference takes
the Fiesta lead with 3.

* The Orange Bowl has two visits from Pac 10 teams in the four year cycle
(both USC) ... tying the Pac 10 for tops with the bowl's traditional tie
in, the ACC. The bowl's other tie-in, the Big East, has one visit in four
years.

* The only bowl that has managed to keep some semblance of tradition is the
Sugar Bowl, with four different SEC schools making visits to New Orleans
each of the past five years in the BCS. Of course, the SEC champ this year
probably wishes that cycle had been broken.

To add a footnote to our list of BCS/BA marks a few weeks back, we have
three newcomers to the mix this year. Utah, obviously, along with Big East
champ Pitt and SEC champ Auburn. VaTech is only the third ACC school to get
a bid, but they had appeared before from the Big East. Still, the ACC has
the lowest parity with three schools (FSU, Maryland and VaTech) earning BCS
bids as part of the league.

On the flip side, Cal's failure to get a bid means that the Big Ten and Big
XII are still tied in depth with eight teams from each conference appearing
in the BCS or Bowl Alliance during the past decade. The only Pac 10 teams
left out are Cal and Arizona. The Big Ten teams on the outside are
Minnesota, Indiana and MSU.

And with Texas earning the at-large berth, the Big XII now ties the Big Ten
for most overall bids with 16 each. The Big Ten mark stands at 9-6 while
the Big XII is 7-7, so a Longhorn/Sooner sweep would even the mark at 9-7
for each league. A Wolverine win gives the Big Ten the distinction of being
the only league towin 10 BCS/BA games in the decade.

Finally, if Pitt pulls off the upset, they will even the Big East's mark at
5-5 in BCS/BA games ... leaving only the ACC with a losing record (3-6
heading into the Sugar Bowl).

Let's see what the shady coaches voting in the polls can do with those
numbers!:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Tue Dec  7 17:50:46 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Tue Dec  7 17:55:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Non-conference scheduling - redux - redux (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <200412072329.iB7NTlJA002751@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <l03130301bddbf1b85bd2@[66.170.163.187]>

>The original purpose of non-conference games was to get the teams ready
>for their conference games.
>
>I would favor a school with a winning conference record against 8 or more
>in-conference opponents being bowl-eligible regardless of the school's
>non-conference record.

Now THERE'S one of the smartest ideas I've heard on college football reform
in years! Sadly, it's the first time I've heard it.

I could really go for this -- and with little to risk in terms of not
making bowls but lots to gain by scheduling big names for big crowds or to
impress pollsters that your team is one of the best, think of the great
September matchups we'd get!

I like it -- now we just gotta convince the university president/blockheads
who keep screwing up college football.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From NEONRye at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 17:55:32 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Tue Dec  7 17:57:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
Message-ID: <1ea.3160c84f.2ee79cf4@aol.com>

>From today's South Bend Tribune, an article entitled "The Search  
continues...Is Mangino [Coach of Kansas] really a candidate:
 
 
"But the candidates Notre Dame is checking into seems to be taking shape with 
 names surfacing Monday such as University of Kansas coach Mark Mangino,  
Northwestern coach Randy Walker, New England Patriots offensive coordinator  
Charlie Weis, former Cleveland Browns and Miami Hurricanes coach Butch Davis and  
UConn coach Randy Edsall." 
He certainly seems to be in the mix--and apparently is doing nothing to  
discourage the talk or take himself out of it, which is starting to disturb  Yours 
Truly.  I have not made any negative comments about our Head Coach,  and 
basically believe we are still headed in the right direction with stability  at 
the top, but if he starts to flirt and continues to "show a little leg" (a la  
GB), I may rethink my position.  I truly believed that Coach Walker wanted  
Evanston to be his final destination.  Now I am not so sure.  The more  important 
question is how Mr. Murphy will feel if this goes on very long.   Methinks 
something may be amiss here. 
Paul Levinson 




From bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  7 19:47:06 2004
From: bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Tue Dec  7 19:48:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] bowls and BCS
Message-ID: <20041208014706.77938.qmail@web51303.mail.yahoo.com>

Look, it's very simple. 

Pro football has playoffs. I-A College football does
not.

Almost all of the columnists, media types and
blowhards ranting about the BCS and bowls are, really,
pro football types who are not really college football
fans in except in a very general I-read-the-scores
kind of way (as I am with pro football). 

These people's agenda is to make college football more
like pro football. I like college FB because it ISN'T
like pro football in so many ways. 

As a sports journalist and longtime CFB fan, I find
that the people I know who are real CFB fans don't
especially want a playoff while the more casual sports
fans want, even demand, a playoff so CFB can be more
like the sport the casual fans know better, pro
football.

To my mind, the BCS did its job: it picked two teams
to play in a "national title" game. In any one-game
situation, there may be deserving teams left out, as
perhaps happened this year (but, hey, no one made
Auburn schedule The Citadel). But that's a whole other
issue; the BCS was set up to identify two top teams
and it did, and it's hard to argue that either team
was not deserving (as it has been in past years).

As for Cal, well, I am with Paul Levinson on disliking
Texas and Mack "Whiner" Brown intensely, but before
falling over Cal as a great academic school go check
its dOSU-like graduation rates. Maybe they deserved to
go the Rose Bowl, maybe not (Texas' record was in some
ways more impressive), but as members of a BCS league
they agreed to play by the system and sometimes life
isn't fair (ask the Illini or Iowa fans who missed
Pasadena for other BCS destinations).

I can live with the BCS, but I'd rather just go back
to the old system including Big Ten-PAC-10 EVERY YEAR
in Pasadena. If there's split national titles, who
cares? Two groups of kids, coaches and fans get to
bask in some glory -- great for them. If the pollsters
don't always make the right choices -- though they
almost always did, with exceptions such as 1994 --
well, mistakes happen in life, learn to deal with
them. 

If sports are supposed to help prepare kids for real
life, then learning to live with frustration,
disappointment and errors in judgment, which are rife
in the real world, is part of that preparation. Life's
not always a bowl (pardon the pun) of cherries, roses,
or anything else.

Brad Wilson

 








 

=====
"Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 

"Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal

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From neil.kaplan at carsdirect.com  Tue Dec  7 20:00:18 2004
From: neil.kaplan at carsdirect.com (Kaplan, Neil)
Date: Tue Dec  7 19:59:28 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] bowls and BCS
Message-ID: <5D23CF7CDF3DA74DA2DB587F621B5FAB06716DCA@cdlaex02.carsdirect.win>

I totally agree with Brad here.  Some other points:

1.  The college regular season is awesome.  EVERY game is really a playoff
game.  It is the only sport where every game is critical -this is the main
reason why coll fb is currently the best of all sports.
-does anyone remember who won any of the coll bb conf championships last
year?  much less the useless conf tourneys?  i don't
-but i can name the last 10 years of big ten fb champs off of the top of my
head.

2.  28 teams end their season with a win and some hope.  What's wrong with
that?  If we were so great in a year to make it to the top 8 and then get
blown out by one of the 'pro' college teams aka Oklahoma, et al. that is
much less satisfying than playing and winning any bowl game since we'll
never win the NC.  Every other sport ends the season with a loss....

3.  Don't underestimate the value of controversy.  It's great for
speculation and keeps the talk radio hounds employed during the slow post
world series times.

4.  Totally prefer the big 10 pac 10 pasadena old school method as well.  We
are better served by this as well.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Wilson [mailto:bwdolphin146@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:47 PM
To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
Subject: [NU Sports] bowls and BCS


Look, it's very simple. 

Pro football has playoffs. I-A College football does
not.

Almost all of the columnists, media types and
blowhards ranting about the BCS and bowls are, really,
pro football types who are not really college football
fans in except in a very general I-read-the-scores
kind of way (as I am with pro football). 

These people's agenda is to make college football more
like pro football. I like college FB because it ISN'T
like pro football in so many ways. 

As a sports journalist and longtime CFB fan, I find
that the people I know who are real CFB fans don't
especially want a playoff while the more casual sports
fans want, even demand, a playoff so CFB can be more
like the sport the casual fans know better, pro
football.

To my mind, the BCS did its job: it picked two teams
to play in a "national title" game. In any one-game
situation, there may be deserving teams left out, as
perhaps happened this year (but, hey, no one made
Auburn schedule The Citadel). But that's a whole other
issue; the BCS was set up to identify two top teams
and it did, and it's hard to argue that either team
was not deserving (as it has been in past years).

As for Cal, well, I am with Paul Levinson on disliking
Texas and Mack "Whiner" Brown intensely, but before
falling over Cal as a great academic school go check
its dOSU-like graduation rates. Maybe they deserved to
go the Rose Bowl, maybe not (Texas' record was in some
ways more impressive), but as members of a BCS league
they agreed to play by the system and sometimes life
isn't fair (ask the Illini or Iowa fans who missed
Pasadena for other BCS destinations).

I can live with the BCS, but I'd rather just go back
to the old system including Big Ten-PAC-10 EVERY YEAR
in Pasadena. If there's split national titles, who
cares? Two groups of kids, coaches and fans get to
bask in some glory -- great for them. If the pollsters
don't always make the right choices -- though they
almost always did, with exceptions such as 1994 --
well, mistakes happen in life, learn to deal with
them. 

If sports are supposed to help prepare kids for real
life, then learning to live with frustration,
disappointment and errors in judgment, which are rife
in the real world, is part of that preparation. Life's
not always a bowl (pardon the pun) of cherries, roses,
or anything else.

Brad Wilson

 








 

=====
"Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 

"Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal

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From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec  7 19:54:22 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec  7 20:00:04 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
Message-ID: <00a301c4dcc8$d8098910$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Premium Chat staring at 8 PM WT

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

From spiritu at northwestern.edu  Tue Dec  7 20:02:20 2004
From: spiritu at northwestern.edu (Jonathan Michael Hawkins)
Date: Tue Dec  7 20:03:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
In-Reply-To: <1ea.3160c84f.2ee79cf4@aol.com>
References: <1ea.3160c84f.2ee79cf4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412071958420.18598@localhost>

> I truly believed that Coach Walker wanted Evanston to be his final
> destination.  Now I am not so sure.  The more important question is how
> Mr. Murphy will feel if this goes on very long.  Methinks something may
> be amiss here.  Paul Levinson

What if "amiss" is that Mr. Murphy has accidentally/purposefully let Mr.
Walker know that he's actually talking to some of the big-name coaches
who are back on the market due to dumba** programs like Notre Dumb getting
rid of great coaches who can't put together a national championship team
in 3 seasons or less?

I mean, Murphy didn't hire Walker, Taylor did.

Not that I think this is anything but wishful thinking from the Notre Dumb
homer crowd working for South Bend newspapers.  They'd wet themselves for
a good coach like Walker.  Instead they're probably going to get South
Bend High's assistant O-line coach on a loan basis from the SBHS athletic
department.  I mean, look at the source of the speculation.

Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan Michael Hawkins       "The only thing necessary for the triumph
<http://www.jomiha.com>         of evil is for good men to do nothing."

From michael.vance at att.net  Tue Dec  7 20:36:28 2004
From: michael.vance at att.net (Michael Vance)
Date: Tue Dec  7 20:37:22 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Non-conference scheduling - redux - redux (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <l03130301bddbf1b85bd2@[66.170.163.187]>
References: <200412072329.iB7NTlJA002751@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041207205142.03c74378@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>

At 12/7/2004 06:50 PM, SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
> >I would favor a school with a winning conference record against 8 or more
> >in-conference opponents being bowl-eligible regardless of the school's
> >non-conference record.
>
>Now THERE'S one of the smartest ideas I've heard on college football reform
>in years! Sadly, it's the first time I've heard it.

Hey, not to toot my own horn here, but I did at least suggest it as a 
possible exemption that the NCAA might want to make this year with a 
potential shortage of bowl-eligible teams.  :-)

Seriously, on the one hand, it makes a certain amount of sense, given the 
emphasis on winning the conference for a BCS spot.  (Although the BCS still 
hasn't taken the final step of mandating that title game participants must 
have won their conference.)

>I could really go for this -- and with little to risk in terms of not
>making bowls but lots to gain by scheduling big names for big crowds or to
>impress pollsters that your team is one of the best, think of the great
>September matchups we'd get!

On the other hand, until they take the aforementioned final step, I don't 
think that we would see a ton more big matchups because getting the #1 or 
#2 overall positions (and the undefeated or one-loss record that leads to 
them) would still be the most important thing for winning a national 
championship.

>I like it -- now we just gotta convince the university president/blockheads
>who keep screwing up college football.

OK, I think we've finally settled on the ultimate in Div I-A bowl reform:

1) A four team playoff in the context of the current bowl system "plus one".

2) First bids go to the best-ranked conference champs that are in the top 
12, regardless of conference, or independents in the top 4.  We could throw 
ND a bone here and make it independents in the top 5 or 6 if we were 
feeling like being charitable.  But with only them and Navy remaining 
independent, I say screw 'em, join a conference.

3) If that doesn't make four, then start at the top and work down until 
four slots are filled

4) Remaining BCS bowl slots go to the next-best ranked teams, with matchups 
decided by a selection committee

5) General bowl-eligibility is awarded as Mike proposed, for a winning 
conference record based on a schedule of at least eight games.  If that's 
too little for everyone, then require at least one non-conf, Div I-A win 
and no non-Div I-A losses

6) Bowls with conference tie-ins must select based on conference record, 
with a one-game "skipover" allowed only to avoid consecutive appearances in 
the same bowl or repeat matchups of a regular season game or previous 
year's bowl game.

Did I miss anything?


Michael, CAS '91
mailto:michael@vance.com

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec  7 21:37:51 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec  7 21:43:33 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
In-Reply-To: <1ea.3160c84f.2ee79cf4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c4dcd7$4bfeddd0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

I go back to my old quote from RW about staying until we didn't want him
anymore...

However, I could see RW looking at the evil empire because the academics are
similar, and the doors to the 5 star recruits open faster

We'd probably lose Fitz.

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of NEONRye@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:56 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
> 
> 
> >From today's South Bend Tribune, an article entitled "The Search
> continues...Is Mangino [Coach of Kansas] really a candidate:
>  
>  
> "But the candidates Notre Dame is checking into seems to be 
> taking shape with 
>  names surfacing Monday such as University of Kansas coach 
> Mark Mangino,  
> Northwestern coach Randy Walker, New England Patriots 
> offensive coordinator  
> Charlie Weis, former Cleveland Browns and Miami Hurricanes 
> coach Butch Davis and  
> UConn coach Randy Edsall." 
> He certainly seems to be in the mix--and apparently is doing 
> nothing to  
> discourage the talk or take himself out of it, which is 
> starting to disturb  Yours 
> Truly.  I have not made any negative comments about our Head 
> Coach,  and 
> basically believe we are still headed in the right direction 
> with stability  at 
> the top, but if he starts to flirt and continues to "show a 
> little leg" (a la  
> GB), I may rethink my position.  I truly believed that Coach 
> Walker wanted  
> Evanston to be his final destination.  Now I am not so sure.  
> The more  important 
> question is how Mr. Murphy will feel if this goes on very 
> long.   Methinks 
> something may be amiss here. 
> Paul Levinson 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Tue Dec  7 21:53:45 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (prplehaze@insightbb.com)
Date: Tue Dec  7 21:54:34 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
Message-ID: <120820040353.15224.41B67AC9000C4CF700003B7821979267610A960E080A049F9D9F@insightbb.com>

If we did lose RW at least we could go out and hire Willingham.  He can 
certainly recruit within the academic parameters that NU requires and he is in 
my opinion and highly qualified and top-notch coach. I think it would be more 
than a fair trade to swap even up with the Evil Empire.

--
Mark Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com


> I go back to my old quote from RW about staying until we didn't want him
> anymore...
> 
> However, I could see RW looking at the evil empire because the academics are
> similar, and the doors to the 5 star recruits open faster
> 
> We'd probably lose Fitz.
> 
> rsl
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
> Computer Applications & Support Associates
> and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
> The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
> (http://www.purplewildcats.com)
> AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
> 
> =========================================
> No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
> itself to prosperity...Think about it.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> > [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of NEONRye@aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:56 PM
> > To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> > Subject: [NU Sports] RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
> > 
> > 
> > >From today's South Bend Tribune, an article entitled "The Search
> > continues...Is Mangino [Coach of Kansas] really a candidate:
> >  
> >  
> > "But the candidates Notre Dame is checking into seems to be 
> > taking shape with 
> >  names surfacing Monday such as University of Kansas coach 
> > Mark Mangino,  
> > Northwestern coach Randy Walker, New England Patriots 
> > offensive coordinator  
> > Charlie Weis, former Cleveland Browns and Miami Hurricanes 
> > coach Butch Davis and  
> > UConn coach Randy Edsall." 
> > He certainly seems to be in the mix--and apparently is doing 
> > nothing to  
> > discourage the talk or take himself out of it, which is 
> > starting to disturb  Yours 
> > Truly.  I have not made any negative comments about our Head 
> > Coach,  and 
> > basically believe we are still headed in the right direction 
> > with stability  at 
> > the top, but if he starts to flirt and continues to "show a 
> > little leg" (a la  
> > GB), I may rethink my position.  I truly believed that Coach 
> > Walker wanted  
> > Evanston to be his final destination.  Now I am not so sure.  
> > The more  important 
> > question is how Mr. Murphy will feel if this goes on very 
> > long.   Methinks 
> > something may be amiss here. 
> > Paul Levinson 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nwu-sports site list
> > nwu-sports@tssi.com
> > http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From CHerron604 at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 22:05:41 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Tue Dec  7 22:09:37 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
Message-ID: <147.3aa0e0bf.2ee7d795@aol.com>

See if we can hire Ty and Teevens - both available, seemed to make a good 
team.

Chuck Herron   Tech '85
From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Tue Dec  7 22:33:26 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Tue Dec  7 22:38:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
In-Reply-To: <147.3aa0e0bf.2ee7d795@aol.com>
Message-ID: <l03130301bddc337bcf58@[66.170.160.160]>

Is there anyone here who seriously thinks Walker ...

1) Wants the ND job
2) Is seeking the ND job
3) Would even be considered for the ND job

Please!!! This is just idle speculation ... ND has no plan B right now and
is scrambling, so any name at any similar institution will be swirling
about for now.

If the trustees just forced the AD to fire a coach who had a better record
than Walker and was a bigger name than Walker nationally, do you think they
would let Kevin White even talk to the Northwestern coach?

These guys took a gamble and lost big-time. They need to find a "name"
coach in a hurry and Walker's just not gonna cut it with an alumni base
that's still suffering from dellusions of grandeur and who haven't yet
picked their jaws up off the floor upon hearing the words "Meyer to
Florida." If White even looks in the direction of Walker, the trustees
might fire White. They need a big-name coach now. Walker's not a name who
would cut it.

I seriously doubt White has even asked for Walker's telephone number and I
doubt Walker has even thought that he would need to take his name out of
the running. This is ridiculous internet game playing, nothing more.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From thehaze at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  7 22:37:00 2004
From: thehaze at earthlink.net (Jim Bendat)
Date: Tue Dec  7 22:40:54 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW not leaving for ND
Message-ID: <41B684EC.4090003@earthlink.net>

Just saw a Comcast Sportsnet report which indicated that Northwestern 
has put out a statement indicating that RW is content at NU, is pleased 
with his job security, and has no plans to leave.  I couldn't find the 
statement on NU's website.   ---  Jim B.


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Wed Dec  8 08:46:30 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Wed Dec  8 08:51:41 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
In-Reply-To: <l03130301bddc337bcf58@[66.170.160.160]>
References: <l03130301bddc337bcf58@[66.170.160.160]>
Message-ID: <41B713C6.3020407@hilgraeve.com>

It is certainly possible that the newspapers are picking this up from 
the Internet.

OR

It is possible that the newspapers have sources that go beyond 
speculation on the Internet.

In any case, the only thing that gives this story any legs at all is 
that RW hasn't come out publically and said he wasn't interested.  In 
fact, he is one of the FEW mentioned on ND lists over the past couple of 
weeks that hasn't come out and said something publically.

So I ask a couple of questions.

What is different about his circumstances that would justify his silence 
(if he weren't interested) compared with all those others who have 
publically said they weren't interested?

We of all institutions should be demanding quick rebuttal of these sorts 
of things given what went on with GB's job hunting.  Yet, it we haven't 
heard it yet.  Why not?

A lot of people in the past used exactly these circumstances to build 
the case that RW is committed to building the program here rather than 
just building his resume.  But when those circumstances actually present 
themselves, he hasn't denied his interest. What's going on?

In comparison, there were a lot of rumors circulating last week 
regarding Carr's retirement at Michigan.  He not only came out and 
flatly denied them, but publically accussed other coaches of 
deliberately spreading those rumors to gain a recruiting advantage.  He 
said that he specifically knows who some of the offending institutions 
are and planned to take action both on and off the field to bring an end 
to it.

That strikes me as the sort of statement you would expect from someone 
who is not interested in any offers. 

There have been some posts lately suggesting that stuff posted on this 
board may be adversely affecting recruiting.  Job rumors that aren't 
quickly quashed by head coaches are going to affect recruiting much more 
than anything posted here.

We are in the middle of recruiting season.  Why aren't we hearing a 
denial from RW?

Jeff



SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:

>Is there anyone here who seriously thinks Walker ...
>
>1) Wants the ND job
>2) Is seeking the ND job
>3) Would even be considered for the ND job
>
>Please!!! This is just idle speculation ... ND has no plan B right now and
>is scrambling, so any name at any similar institution will be swirling
>about for now.
>
>If the trustees just forced the AD to fire a coach who had a better record
>than Walker and was a bigger name than Walker nationally, do you think they
>would let Kevin White even talk to the Northwestern coach?
>
>These guys took a gamble and lost big-time. They need to find a "name"
>coach in a hurry and Walker's just not gonna cut it with an alumni base
>that's still suffering from dellusions of grandeur and who haven't yet
>picked their jaws up off the floor upon hearing the words "Meyer to
>Florida." If White even looks in the direction of Walker, the trustees
>might fire White. They need a big-name coach now. Walker's not a name who
>would cut it.
>
>I seriously doubt White has even asked for Walker's telephone number and I
>doubt Walker has even thought that he would need to take his name out of
>the running. This is ridiculous internet game playing, nothing more.
>
>GO CATS!!!
>-SjT
>
>
>888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
>8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
>88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
>88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
>88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
>88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
>888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
>8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
>====================================================
>Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>
>  
>


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Wed Dec  8 08:56:00 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Wed Dec  8 09:01:04 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW not leaving for ND
In-Reply-To: <41B684EC.4090003@earthlink.net>
References: <41B684EC.4090003@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41B71600.7060701@hilgraeve.com>

Jim,

Thanks for the post.

This is the sort of response that I was speculating about earlier.

Curious why it hasn't had a broader distribution.

Jeff


Jim Bendat wrote:

> Just saw a Comcast Sportsnet report which indicated that Northwestern 
> has put out a statement indicating that RW is content at NU, is 
> pleased with his job security, and has no plans to leave.  I couldn't 
> find the statement on NU's website.   ---  Jim B.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>


From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  8 09:25:51 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Wed Dec  8 09:27:03 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041207205142.03c74378@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <20041208152551.57454.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>

> 
> Hey, not to toot my own horn here, but I did at least suggest it as a
> possible exemption that the NCAA might want to make this year with a 
> potential shortage of bowl-eligible teams.  :-)

On that note, I don't think anyone has mentioned the following
yet--from Mark Murphy's latest post on nusports.com:

"Interestingly, prior to the Hawaii game we had petitioned the NCAA for
a ruling that we should be bowl eligible even if we lost to Hawaii
because we were not using the 12th game to be bowl eligible, but the
NCAA denied our petition."

Too bad--it certainly would have brought the graduation rate average
for bowl teams up by a quite a bit. I'm not sure we "deserved" to be in
a bowl game, but we probably deserved it as much if not more than many
of the other 6-5 times that are in bowls this year. 

Tom

From jleonard518 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  8 09:38:06 2004
From: jleonard518 at yahoo.com (Jim Leonard)
Date: Wed Dec  8 09:39:22 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] A trade better than the Babe Ruth deal
In-Reply-To: <20041207213802.47344.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041208153806.69430.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com>

If we could send Walker to South Bend and get Willingham in Evanston, ahhhh...

I know it won't happen, but it's a slow day at work - so let me dream. 

Although I'd like to see Walker move on, I'm not sure that I'd hold his feet to
the fire too much for not publicly denying any interest in/with Notre Dame.
After all, Gary Barnett swore allegiance to NU the very week that he defected
(Liar!). In today's world of college football, I don't think we can put much
stock in what coaches say or do not say about job prospects. 

>From the depths of Sarbanes-Oxley documentation,
-Jim


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec  8 10:30:20 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec  8 10:36:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
In-Reply-To: <41B713C6.3020407@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <00c401c4dd43$35cc5f30$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

5 Commits in 3 days should send some kind of message from Nicolette that RW
isn't interested - 

The report about a press release should also be a good indication - although I
can't find it anywhere...

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:47 AM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article 
> About ND Job
> 
> 
> It is certainly possible that the newspapers are picking this up from 
> the Internet.
> 
> OR
> 
> It is possible that the newspapers have sources that go beyond 
> speculation on the Internet.
> 
> In any case, the only thing that gives this story any legs at all is 
> that RW hasn't come out publically and said he wasn't interested.  In 
> fact, he is one of the FEW mentioned on ND lists over the 
> past couple of 
> weeks that hasn't come out and said something publically.
> 
> So I ask a couple of questions.
> 
> What is different about his circumstances that would justify 
> his silence 
> (if he weren't interested) compared with all those others who have 
> publically said they weren't interested?
> 
> We of all institutions should be demanding quick rebuttal of 
> these sorts 
> of things given what went on with GB's job hunting.  Yet, it 
> we haven't 
> heard it yet.  Why not?
> 
> A lot of people in the past used exactly these circumstances to build 
> the case that RW is committed to building the program here 
> rather than 
> just building his resume.  But when those circumstances 
> actually present 
> themselves, he hasn't denied his interest. What's going on?
> 
> In comparison, there were a lot of rumors circulating last week 
> regarding Carr's retirement at Michigan.  He not only came out and 
> flatly denied them, but publically accussed other coaches of 
> deliberately spreading those rumors to gain a recruiting 
> advantage.  He 
> said that he specifically knows who some of the offending 
> institutions 
> are and planned to take action both on and off the field to 
> bring an end 
> to it.
> 
> That strikes me as the sort of statement you would expect 
> from someone 
> who is not interested in any offers. 
> 
> There have been some posts lately suggesting that stuff 
> posted on this 
> board may be adversely affecting recruiting.  Job rumors that aren't 
> quickly quashed by head coaches are going to affect 
> recruiting much more 
> than anything posted here.
> 
> We are in the middle of recruiting season.  Why aren't we hearing a 
> denial from RW?
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
> 
> >Is there anyone here who seriously thinks Walker ...
> >
> >1) Wants the ND job
> >2) Is seeking the ND job
> >3) Would even be considered for the ND job
> >
> >Please!!! This is just idle speculation ... ND has no plan B 
> right now 
> >and is scrambling, so any name at any similar institution will be 
> >swirling about for now.
> >
> >If the trustees just forced the AD to fire a coach who had a better 
> >record than Walker and was a bigger name than Walker 
> nationally, do you 
> >think they would let Kevin White even talk to the Northwestern coach?
> >
> >These guys took a gamble and lost big-time. They need to 
> find a "name" 
> >coach in a hurry and Walker's just not gonna cut it with an 
> alumni base 
> >that's still suffering from dellusions of grandeur and who 
> haven't yet 
> >picked their jaws up off the floor upon hearing the words "Meyer to 
> >Florida." If White even looks in the direction of Walker, 
> the trustees 
> >might fire White. They need a big-name coach now. Walker's 
> not a name 
> >who would cut it.
> >
> >I seriously doubt White has even asked for Walker's telephone number 
> >and I doubt Walker has even thought that he would need to 
> take his name 
> >out of the running. This is ridiculous internet game 
> playing, nothing 
> >more.
> >
> >GO CATS!!!
> >-SjT
> >
> >
> >888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
> >8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
> >88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
> >88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
> >88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
> >88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
> >888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
> >8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
> >====================================================
> >Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nwu-sports site list
> >nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec  8 10:52:13 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec  8 10:57:54 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/8
Message-ID: <00c501c4dd46$45f8d0c0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Midweek Edition **

Football Recruiting is the big topic today, with another Commit and more info on
prospects. There's also news from future Basketball opponents, and the Academic
All Big 10 Team too. Sad news from Volleyball, 
and Miscellany & Alumni news sneaks in too...

                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more

60 Wildcats Named Academic All Big 10

http://northwestern.scout.com/2/328020.html 



Men's BASKETBALL

     Taking those Finals

Looking Ahead:

     De Paul
     Quemont Greer Named Conference USA Player of the Week
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1938 

     Seton Hall
     Men's Basketball Hosts St. Francis Wednesday Night at Continental Airlines
Arena
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2359 
     + More: Seton Hall-St. Francis
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110248741277081.xml 

     Arizona State


     Robert Morris
     Bucknell Pulls Away from Men's Basketball with Second-Half Surge, 60-45
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60509&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7191&inws_seqno=6547&ihide_header=0 
     Delaware State

Women's BASKETBALL

     Taking Exams

FOOTBALL

     Zook, Northwestern's Walker were teammates
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-walk08.html 
      this is about the story that started the Walker to ND rumors
     Irish may consider Mangino
 
http://www.kansan.com/getstory.aspx?id=bc0f58d5-0b35-45a9-9046-c2c48862344d 

Commentary:

     This is a sad commentary...
     Bowl teams' grad rates under half
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/082sd2.htm 
     SjT: Randy Walker to the Irish?
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/328011.html 

Big 10


     Illini players know there's work ahead
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38329155 
     + Zook may not pronounce Illinois right, but it looks like he 'gets' it
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38329206 

RECRUITING

     Recruiting Cat Chat Recap $
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/328008.html 
     Omar Conteh Windy City welcomes Texas RB
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327980&nid=1651730&fhn=1 
     Jake Gaebler More honors for Illinois WR
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327956&nid=1201736&fhn=1 
     Daryl Jones Waiting on The Farm
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327851&nid=1168788&fhn=1 
     Steve Davis Visiting Minnesota This Weekend
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=327732&nid=1341235&fhn=1 
     Sean Carney Dallas D'Lineman Down To Two
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=327281 
     Mark Ortmann Will Mark Ortmann be a Wolverine?
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=327912 

VOLLEYBALL

     Margie Fitzpatrick Loses Battle With Brain Cancer
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-volley/spec-rel/120604aab.html 

Miscellany

     Funny that both NU and the Army refer to their top performers as
"Warriors."
     Heated war of words over 'Warriors'
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041207warriors,1,43474
28.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Oh Well...
     Notre Dame's list of candidates shrinks
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041206irish,1,4353030.
story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Black ND alumni question Willingham firing
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041207irishalums,1,809
693.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Alumni

     In case you missed this one...
     Mark Loretta Padres MVA Again
 
http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/sd/news/sd_news.jsp?ymd=20041119&conte
nt_id=914806&vkey=news_sd&fext=.jsp 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
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http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
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http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Wed Dec  8 10:54:57 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Wed Dec  8 11:00:04 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article About ND Job
In-Reply-To: <00c401c4dd43$35cc5f30$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
References: <00c401c4dd43$35cc5f30$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <41B731E1.1050008@hilgraeve.com>

I think that it is great that we are getting commitments.

But when I look at how public and visible the other denials are from the 
other ND candidates, it is a little curious that we aren't seeing just 
as visible and public a denial from RW and NU.

Maybe it is just the logistics of getting this information out into the 
press that we are all seeing.

One would think that that would clear itself up in a few hours however.

I guess we can wait to see if the reported denial shows up on the NU 
site and in the papers in the next 24 hours or so.

Jeff


Roy S. Lamberton wrote:

>5 Commits in 3 days should send some kind of message from Nicolette that RW
>isn't interested - 
>
>The report about a press release should also be a good indication - although I
>can't find it anywhere...
>
>rsl
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
>Computer Applications & Support Associates
>and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
>The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
>(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
>AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
>
>=========================================
>No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
>itself to prosperity...Think about it.
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
>>[mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:47 AM
>>To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
>>Subject: Re: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article 
>>About ND Job
>>
>>
>>It is certainly possible that the newspapers are picking this up from 
>>the Internet.
>>
>>OR
>>
>>It is possible that the newspapers have sources that go beyond 
>>speculation on the Internet.
>>
>>In any case, the only thing that gives this story any legs at all is 
>>that RW hasn't come out publically and said he wasn't interested.  In 
>>fact, he is one of the FEW mentioned on ND lists over the 
>>past couple of 
>>weeks that hasn't come out and said something publically.
>>
>>So I ask a couple of questions.
>>
>>What is different about his circumstances that would justify 
>>his silence 
>>(if he weren't interested) compared with all those others who have 
>>publically said they weren't interested?
>>
>>We of all institutions should be demanding quick rebuttal of 
>>these sorts 
>>of things given what went on with GB's job hunting.  Yet, it 
>>we haven't 
>>heard it yet.  Why not?
>>
>>A lot of people in the past used exactly these circumstances to build 
>>the case that RW is committed to building the program here 
>>rather than 
>>just building his resume.  But when those circumstances 
>>actually present 
>>themselves, he hasn't denied his interest. What's going on?
>>
>>In comparison, there were a lot of rumors circulating last week 
>>regarding Carr's retirement at Michigan.  He not only came out and 
>>flatly denied them, but publically accussed other coaches of 
>>deliberately spreading those rumors to gain a recruiting 
>>advantage.  He 
>>said that he specifically knows who some of the offending 
>>institutions 
>>are and planned to take action both on and off the field to 
>>bring an end 
>>to it.
>>
>>That strikes me as the sort of statement you would expect 
>>from someone 
>>who is not interested in any offers. 
>>
>>There have been some posts lately suggesting that stuff 
>>posted on this 
>>board may be adversely affecting recruiting.  Job rumors that aren't 
>>quickly quashed by head coaches are going to affect 
>>recruiting much more 
>>than anything posted here.
>>
>>We are in the middle of recruiting season.  Why aren't we hearing a 
>>denial from RW?
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Is there anyone here who seriously thinks Walker ...
>>>
>>>1) Wants the ND job
>>>2) Is seeking the ND job
>>>3) Would even be considered for the ND job
>>>
>>>Please!!! This is just idle speculation ... ND has no plan B 
>>>      
>>>
>>right now 
>>    
>>
>>>and is scrambling, so any name at any similar institution will be 
>>>swirling about for now.
>>>
>>>If the trustees just forced the AD to fire a coach who had a better 
>>>record than Walker and was a bigger name than Walker 
>>>      
>>>
>>nationally, do you 
>>    
>>
>>>think they would let Kevin White even talk to the Northwestern coach?
>>>
>>>These guys took a gamble and lost big-time. They need to 
>>>      
>>>
>>find a "name" 
>>    
>>
>>>coach in a hurry and Walker's just not gonna cut it with an 
>>>      
>>>
>>alumni base 
>>    
>>
>>>that's still suffering from dellusions of grandeur and who 
>>>      
>>>
>>haven't yet 
>>    
>>
>>>picked their jaws up off the floor upon hearing the words "Meyer to 
>>>Florida." If White even looks in the direction of Walker, 
>>>      
>>>
>>the trustees 
>>    
>>
>>>might fire White. They need a big-name coach now. Walker's 
>>>      
>>>
>>not a name 
>>    
>>
>>>who would cut it.
>>>
>>>I seriously doubt White has even asked for Walker's telephone number 
>>>and I doubt Walker has even thought that he would need to 
>>>      
>>>
>>take his name 
>>    
>>
>>>out of the running. This is ridiculous internet game 
>>>      
>>>
>>playing, nothing 
>>    
>>
>>>more.
>>>
>>>GO CATS!!!
>>>-SjT
>>>
>>>
>>>888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
>>>8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
>>>88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
>>>88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
>>>88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
>>>88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
>>>888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
>>>8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
>>>====================================================
>>>Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nwu-sports site list
>>>nwu-sports@tssi.com 
>>>      
>>>
>>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>>    
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nwu-sports site list
>>nwu-sports@tssi.com 
>>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


From tmcadams at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  8 11:06:52 2004
From: tmcadams at yahoo.com (Trey McAdams)
Date: Wed Dec  8 11:08:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] A trade better than the Babe Ruth deal
In-Reply-To: <20041208153806.69430.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041208170652.45517.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com>

I think that this is more a smoke screen for
recruiting than anything.  There are a few kids that
would be recruited by both schools.  Therefore, they
have to try to do some harm in the recruiting game. 
Considering all of the harm they are doing to
themselves in this mess, I can't blame them.

I agree with Stephan, there is no change that RW or ND
is considering this.  One word - LAWSUIT.  RW is going
nowhere.


--- Jim Leonard <jleonard518@yahoo.com> wrote:

> If we could send Walker to South Bend and get
> Willingham in Evanston, ahhhh...
> 
> I know it won't happen, but it's a slow day at work
> - so let me dream. 
> 
> Although I'd like to see Walker move on, I'm not
> sure that I'd hold his feet to
> the fire too much for not publicly denying any
> interest in/with Notre Dame.
> After all, Gary Barnett swore allegiance to NU the
> very week that he defected
> (Liar!). In today's world of college football, I
> don't think we can put much
> stock in what coaches say or do not say about job
> prospects. 
> 
> >From the depths of Sarbanes-Oxley documentation,
> -Jim
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. 
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 

From spiritu at northwestern.edu  Wed Dec  8 11:07:18 2004
From: spiritu at northwestern.edu (Jonathan Michael Hawkins)
Date: Wed Dec  8 11:08:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
In-Reply-To: <20041208152551.57454.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041208152551.57454.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412081101540.20956@localhost>

> Too bad--it certainly would have brought the graduation rate average
> for bowl teams up by a quite a bit. I'm not sure we "deserved" to be in
> a bowl game, but we probably deserved it as much if not more than many
> of the other 6-5 times that are in bowls this year.

Given the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i this
year, I'm not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home for the
holidays.

Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from?  Also,
does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at the next game where MSU
got jobbed worse than we did?

From neil.kaplan at carsdirect.com  Wed Dec  8 11:40:49 2004
From: neil.kaplan at carsdirect.com (Kaplan, Neil)
Date: Wed Dec  8 11:39:59 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
Message-ID: <5D23CF7CDF3DA74DA2DB587F621B5FAB06716DDB@cdlaex02.carsdirect.win>

Wasn't that the worst reffing anyone has ever seen?

Even the Globetrotters had better that this...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Michael Hawkins [mailto:spiritu@northwestern.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:07 AM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility


> Too bad--it certainly would have brought the graduation rate average
> for bowl teams up by a quite a bit. I'm not sure we "deserved" to be in
> a bowl game, but we probably deserved it as much if not more than many
> of the other 6-5 times that are in bowls this year.

Given the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i this
year, I'm not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home for the
holidays.

Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from?  Also,
does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at the next game where MSU
got jobbed worse than we did?

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
From MHRJGScott at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 11:49:36 2004
From: MHRJGScott at aol.com (MHRJGScott@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 11:53:39 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
Message-ID: <bb.4c281dc6.2ee898b0@aol.com>

 
The Akron Zips got jobbed worse than anybody. If Hawaii had not become bowl  
eligible the Zips would have gone to Honolulu, as it is they are bowl eligible 
 but staying in Akron. They should find out where those refs live.

Given  the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i this
year, I'm  not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home for  the
holidays.

Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs  were from?  Also,
does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at  the next game where MSU
got jobbed worse than we  did?





From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  8 12:02:17 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Wed Dec  8 12:03:33 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412081101540.20956@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041208180218.98543.qmail@web52005.mail.yahoo.com>

> Given the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i
> this
> year, I'm not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home
> for the
> holidays.
> 
> Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from? 

I seem to recall hearing they were local (i.e. Hawaii residents), but
not certain about that.

My wife works with someone who was at the game, and they said they felt
the refs were terrible. From watching on TV, it seemed that most of our
penalties were earned, but I also recall thinking that Hawaii should
have been flagged for offensive holding on numerous occasions. 

What happened in the MSU game?

Tom

From Alan.Abrahamson at latimes.com  Wed Dec  8 12:15:08 2004
From: Alan.Abrahamson at latimes.com (Abrahamson, Alan)
Date: Wed Dec  8 12:23:25 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
Message-ID: <6A0419188B49A54C960893D230C268070146EFD0@goose.latimes.com>

While I agree that the officiating at Hawaii was awful, I say, who cares if MSU got jobbed worse than we did?
 Not me. 
 That's their problem, not ours. 
  



-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com <nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com>
To: 'Jonathan Michael Hawkins' <spiritu@northwestern.edu>; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
Sent: Wed Dec 08 09:40:49 2004
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility

Wasn't that the worst reffing anyone has ever seen?

Even the Globetrotters had better that this...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Michael Hawkins [mailto:spiritu@northwestern.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:07 AM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility


> Too bad--it certainly would have brought the graduation rate average
> for bowl teams up by a quite a bit. I'm not sure we "deserved" to be in
> a bowl game, but we probably deserved it as much if not more than many
> of the other 6-5 times that are in bowls this year.

Given the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i this
year, I'm not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home for the
holidays.

Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from?  Also,
does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at the next game where MSU
got jobbed worse than we did?

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From eschoeman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec  8 12:34:18 2004
From: eschoeman at sbcglobal.net (Evans Schoeman)
Date: Wed Dec  8 12:35:30 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
In-Reply-To: <5D23CF7CDF3DA74DA2DB587F621B5FAB06716DDB@cdlaex02.carsdirect.win>
Message-ID: <003101c4dd54$875d5a50$220110ac@OFFICEDESKTOP2>

Surprisingly, they were not the same crews.  It's hard to believe how a
conference could have two sets of officials that incompetent.

On the other hand, my friend in Honolulu told me that everyone knew that
Hawaii had to win both games to host their bowl.  I'm sure that didn't
influence the WAC refs at all!

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On
Behalf Of Kaplan, Neil
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:41 AM
To: 'Jonathan Michael Hawkins'; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility

Wasn't that the worst reffing anyone has ever seen?

Even the Globetrotters had better that this...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Michael Hawkins [mailto:spiritu@northwestern.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:07 AM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility


> Too bad--it certainly would have brought the graduation rate average
> for bowl teams up by a quite a bit. I'm not sure we "deserved" to be in
> a bowl game, but we probably deserved it as much if not more than many
> of the other 6-5 times that are in bowls this year.

Given the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i this
year, I'm not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home for the
holidays.

Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from?  Also,
does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at the next game where MSU
got jobbed worse than we did?

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From s.fridley at comcast.net  Wed Dec  8 14:48:23 2004
From: s.fridley at comcast.net (s.fridley@comcast.net)
Date: Wed Dec  8 14:49:13 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] RW & NU shoot down ND rumor
Message-ID: <120820042048.9421.41B768970003AC36000024CD2207001641970A040B079D00D29C@comcast.net>

I can confirm Jim Bendat's report on the Comcast channel's story.  Comcast ran the story and NU's shootdown of the rumor again this morning.  The statement was unequivocal.  The Comcast reporter stated that the statement came "seemingly within seconds" of Walker's name being mentioned as an ND candidate.

Why isn't it on NU's site (yet)?  Don't know, other than that they may have been responding to a specific inquiry and didn't wish to give the denial more publicity than the rumor had to start with.  That's only a guess, obviously.

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> I think that it is great that we are getting commitments. 
> 
> But when I look at how public and visible the other denials are from the 
> other ND candidates, it is a little curious that we aren't seeing just 
> as visible and public a denial from RW and NU. 
> 
> Maybe it is just the logistics of getting this information out into the 
> press that we are all seeing. 
> 
> One would think that that would clear itself up in a few hours however. 
> 
> I guess we can wait to see if the reported denial shows up on the NU 
> site and in the papers in the next 24 hours or so. 
> 
> Jeff 
> 
> 
> Roy S. Lamberton wrote: 
> 
> >5 Commits in 3 days should send some kind of message from Nicolette that RW 
> >isn't interested - 
> > 
> >The report about a press release should also be a good indication - although I 
> >can't find it anywhere... 
> > 
> >rsl 
> > 
> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> >Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate 
> >Computer Applications & Support Associates 
> >and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
> >The Scout.com Northwestern University Site 
> >(http://www.purplewildcats.com) 
> >AIM Handle: CoachRoy74 
> > 
> >========================================= 
> >No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated 
> >itself to prosperity...Think about it. 
> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message----- 
> >>From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> >>[mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley 
> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:47 AM 
> >>To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com 
> >>Subject: Re: [NU Sports] RE: RW Mentioned In Another Article 
> >>About ND Job 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>It is certainly possible that the newspapers are picking this up from 
> >>the Internet. 
> >> 
> >>OR 
> >> 
> >>It is possible that the newspapers have sources that go beyond 
> >>speculation on the Internet. 
> >> 
> >>In any case, the only thing that gives this story any legs at all is 
> >>that RW hasn't come out publically and said he wasn't interested. In 
> >>fact, he is one of the FEW mentioned on ND lists over the 
> >>past couple of 
> >>weeks that hasn't come out and said something publically. 
> >> 
> >>So I ask a couple of questions. 
> >> 
> >>What is different about his circumstances that would justify 
> >>his silence 
> >>(if he weren't interested) compared with all those others who have 
> >>publically said they weren't interested? 
> >> 
> >>We of all institutions should be demanding quick rebuttal of 
> >>these sorts 
> >>of things given what went on with GB's job hunting. Yet, it 
> >>we haven't 
> >>heard it yet. Why not? 
> >> 
> >>A lot of people in the past used exactly these circumstances to build 
> >>the case that RW is committed to building the program here 
> >>rather than 
> >>just building his resume. But when those circumstances 
> >>actually present 
> >>themselves, he hasn't denied his interest. What's going on? 
> >> 
> >>In comparison, there were a lot of rumors circulating last week 
> >>regarding Carr's retirement at Michigan. He not only came out and 
> >>flatly denied them, but publically accussed other coaches of 
> >>deliberately spreading those rumors to gain a recruiting 
> >>advantage. He 
> >>said that he specifically knows who some of the offending 
> >>institutions 
> >>are and planned to take action both on and off the field to 
> >>bring an end 
> >>to it. 
> >> 
> >>That strikes me as the sort of statement you would expect 
> >>from someone 
> >>who is not interested in any offers. 
> >> 
> >>There have been some posts lately suggesting that stuff 
> >>posted on this 
> >>board may be adversely affecting recruiting. Job rumors that aren't 
> >>quickly quashed by head coaches are going to affect 
> >>recruiting much more 
> >>than anything posted here. 
> >> 
> >>We are in the middle of recruiting season. Why aren't we hearing a 
> >>denial from RW? 
> >> 
> >>Jeff 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>Is there anyone here who seriously thinks Walker ... 
> >>> 
> >>>1) Wants the ND job 
> >>>2) Is seeking the ND job 
> >>>3) Would even be considered for the ND job 
> >>> 
> >>>Please!!! This is just idle speculation ... ND has no plan B 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>right now 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>and is scrambling, so any name at any similar institution will be 
> >>>swirling about for now. 
> >>> 
> >>>If the trustees just forced the AD to fire a coach who had a better 
> >>>record than Walker and was a bigger name than Walker 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>nationally, do you 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>think they would let Kevin White even talk to the Northwestern coach? 
> >>> 
> >>>These guys took a gamble and lost big-time. They need to 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>find a "name" 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>coach in a hurry and Walker's just not gonna cut it with an 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>alumni base 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>that's still suffering from dellusions of grandeur and who 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>haven't yet 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>picked their jaws up off the floor upon hearing the words "Meyer to 
> >>>Florida." If White even looks in the direction of Walker, 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>the trustees 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>might fire White. They need a big-name coach now. Walker's 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>not a name 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>who would cut it. 
> >>> 
> >>>I seriously doubt White has even asked for Walker's telephone number 
> >>>and I doubt Walker has even thought that he would need to 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>take his name 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>out of the running. This is ridiculous internet game 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>playing, nothing 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>more. 
> >>> 
> >>>GO CATS!!! 
> >>>-SjT 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>888b 8888 O R T H W E S T E R 888b 8888 
> >>>8888b Y888 ============================ 8888b Y888 
> >>>88888b Y88 * Stephen J. Truog * 88888b Y88 
> >>>88 Y88b 88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b 88 
> >>>88 Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88 Y88b 88 
> >>>88b Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b Y88888 
> >>>888b Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b Y8888 
> >>>8888 Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888 Y888 
> >>>==================================================== 
> >>>Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>_______________________________________________ 
> >>>nwu-sports site list 
> >>>nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>_______________________________________________ 
> >>nwu-sports site list 
> >>nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> >>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> nwu-sports site list 
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec  8 14:53:38 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 15:00:55 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching shuffles ...
In-Reply-To: <41B731E1.1050008@hilgraeve.com>
References: <00c401c4dd43$35cc5f30$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
	<41B731E1.1050008@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <49755.66.170.162.152.1102539218.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

> But when I look at how public and visible the other denials are from the
> other ND candidates, it is a little curious that we aren't seeing just
> as visible and public a denial from RW and NU.

I haven't seen any visible public denials for ND so far ... unless you
count signing extensions at current schools denials.

I think we're reading far too much into this. First off, I doubt Walker
ever was contacted or seriously considered for the job, so he probably
didn't think he needed to issue a denial as soon as the shocking firing of
Willingham happened.

Then, he may have been on the road recruiting ... on vacation ... sick in
bed ... who really knows where he was, but somehow his name got circulated
online and in some small papers (not in any Chicago papers, I believe) --
so he calls the NU Sports department and issues a denial.

What more can the guy do? The Chicago press doesn't cover us during the
season and they're not going to send some cameras and stuff up to Evanston
for a denial of someone they had never even mentioned or considered as a
candidate for the job.

He's issued statements that he's happy at NU and a denial. Unless we want
some sort of blood brothers oath, I think we should be satisfied!:)

Now, speaking of press coverage ...

The hiring of Zook has certainly put the Ill-whine-I back on the Chicago
media's radar for the first time in three years. Which could be bad news
for recruiting, but I'm not sure we're after a lot of the same athletes --
it's more likely to impact Iowa, Wisconsin and Purdue, who have been
reaping the benefits of an awful UI team in the Chicagoland area the past
few years.

I gotta say that I am impressed -- I wasn't sure Illinois would be able to
attract a "name" coach or much attention. But they got someone who -- if
nothing else -- has proven himself to be one heck of a recruiter at
Florida and before that at Ohio State. If the rumored pipeline from
Chicago to Champaign exists for sports outside of basketball, Zook will
sure open it up. And he won't have the unbelievable pressure he did at
Florida (where his recruits are finally going to be upperclassmen next
year and should be top 10 material). So this move has already paid off big
for UI.

Who'd have though that Illinois would be the midwestern university hiring
the big football name this season?

With Louisville and Boise State signing up their coaches a day after Cal
locked Tedford in ... along with Ferentz signing a big contract before the
opening ... the Irish really gotta be in a mad scramble for candidates.
Most of the big mid-major coaches are out of the running. Where do they go
next?

The Trib reported today that ND has called the Buffalo Bills offensive
coordinator ... but I'm not sure that will do much to satisfy alumni. They
may have to wait out the NFL season and hope that either Coughlin gets
fired in New York, Weiss leaves New England or Gruden can be coerced to
come. But none of that is going to happen for another month, leaving four
or five more weeks of wild speculation, rumors, puzzlement and lost
recruits as the embarassment grows.

It's like Christmas came early this year ... with another B(C)S disaster
(a repeat of last year's three-way deadlock with higher stakes since all
are unbeaten ... plus the shady voting/Cal controversey) and the Notre
Dame DOH!mer Debacle.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec  8 15:01:58 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 15:09:08 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility
In-Reply-To: <5D23CF7CDF3DA74DA2DB587F621B5FAB06716DDB@cdlaex02.carsdirect.win>
References: <5D23CF7CDF3DA74DA2DB587F621B5FAB06716DDB@cdlaex02.carsdirect.win>
Message-ID: <49757.66.170.162.152.1102539718.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

Well, I'm pleased to know that we at least requested the waiver ... I
think Murphy made a good point in that unlike other teams in past years,
we weren't using the twelfth game to become bowl eligible. And with our
conference record, I think we had a good case ... they allow an exception
to the I-AA win to count every four years or so ... and they could have
here.

And if the plethora of bowls have to keep accepting a flurry of MAC teams,
that rule may change soon. I'd wonder how this is working out for the MAC,
too -- do they have a money-sharing rule in the league like the Big Ten?
The reason I ask is because they have more teams than the Big Ten and the
bowls that they got in this year are all the lowest tier of payouts. They
don't have the attendance bases of the Big Ten and may have to eat costs
on ticket allotment ... I wonder if the league will come out ahead on
these extra bowl bids or if the travel costs, ticket buybacks and
conference sharing will put them in the red.

> Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from?  Also,
> does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at the next game where MSU
> got jobbed worse than we did?

I originally thought the refs were Big Ten officials ... but I guess they
were local folk. It was certainly odd to see both MSU and NU play almost
identical games on the island ... big early leads, exceptionally large
penalty totals and a late collapse. In our game, I know the certainly
missed a sideline call on a TD pass and that last pick ... most of our
penalties seemed legit (some a bit ticky tack), but there were some
big-time Hawaii holds on Loren and Luis that were uncalled all day.

But it's over now ... it doesn't sting as much and I can appreciate the
season as a whole better now. I am glad to hear that we at least asked for
the NCAA exception though, because I think we had a good case and I'd have
hated to have not tried all avenues to get Noah, Luis and the other
seniors an extra game to shine.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From CHerron604 at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 15:43:42 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 15:47:39 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <3EAF0229.66082B5F.0A143833@aol.com>

For reasons that have never been quite clear to me, the NU Football Media Guide publishes a page called (something like) 'Ryan Field Attendance Figures', and then fails to give any figures, mentioning only that fans in Chicago have a lot of choices.

Fortunately the NCAA publishes attendance figures.  Unfortunately, our attendance continues to be pretty weak.

Many have alluded to the 'exciting games' for this year's team, but it hasn't seemed to carry over to the box office.

92   32,989
93   30,965
94   34,382
95   38,230
96   42,310
97   41,868
98   40,907
99   30,845
00   33,498
01   33,763
02   28,611
03   28,771
04   28,408

Some of our peer institutions are way ahead of us - Stanford, 45,000 per game, BC 43,000 per game, Army  36,000 per game, Navy 30,000 per game...Even Baylor is averaging almost 30,000 per game.

We became the first school in the modern era to see their attendance erode by 25% in one year when it plummeted from 40,907 in 98 to 30,845 in 99.

All of this after a pretty major upgrade to facilities.

The team is turning in .500 seasons and generally exciting games - why is attendance so bad ?  Can RW draw crowds in Chicago ?

Chuck Herron   Tech '85

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Wed Dec  8 15:58:21 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Wed Dec  8 15:58:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowl eligibility (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412082158.iB8LwLrQ014182@romaine.tssi.com>

> But it's over now ... it doesn't sting as much and I can appreciate the
> season as a whole better now. I am glad to hear that we at least asked for
> the NCAA exception though, because I think we had a good case and I'd have
> hated to have not tried all avenues to get Noah, Luis and the other
> seniors an extra game to shine.

I guess you weren't one of those moaning about Iowa State applying for
a waiver before it became moot after they failed to punch their ticket 
to the Big XII Championship game.  :-)

Had this been a 12 game season for all schools, the Cats would have been
bowl-eligible.  I doubt that's lost on the Big 10 conference.

I still expect the NCAA to change the rules so that every year is
a 12 game year, for which a 6-6 record has already been defined
as bowl-eligible.

I don't think it's on the agenda for this spring's meetings, but since
I think 2005 is also an 11 game season I expect that the financial pressure
to change the rules will start to build by fall.  Not every school gets a 
big payday out of that 12th game (Northwestern probably does not), but 
I figure the 1-A schools are collectively leaving over $50 million on 
the table in an 11 game season by not having that 12th game.
--
Mike Nolan

From NEONRye at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 16:10:49 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 16:12:31 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Coaching shuffles ...
Message-ID: <79.3a4a1809.2ee8d5e9@aol.com>

The Bills' Offensive Coordinator is Tom Clement, the former ND star QB and  
Canadian Football Star.  He was a Teaching Asst. under Lou Holtz, when  Holtz 
was the HC at ND.  THE NY TIMES had a big article about his candidacy  today, 
and it looks like he may have a real shot at the job.
 
Paul Levinson
From Sanford_Stein at rush.edu  Wed Dec  8 16:19:36 2004
From: Sanford_Stein at rush.edu (Sanford_Stein@rush.edu)
Date: Wed Dec  8 16:19:52 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <3EAF0229.66082B5F.0A143833@aol.com>
Message-ID: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>





Why is attendance so bad?

1.  Ticket prices?  They've doubled since the peak attendance years of the
late 1990's.
      I know that they're not out of line with the Big Ten (and the %
increase not out of line with pro
      teams), but how do they compare to the "peer institutions" mentioned
below?  I know a ticket
      at Duke three years ago was only $22.

2.  Two non-conference home games a year before the students are in school?
This probably
      drags down the average compared with those schools that start in
August.
      (Do we have the Big Ten game numbers?)





For reasons that have never been quite clear to me, the NU Football Media
Guide publishes a page called (something like) 'Ryan Field Attendance
Figures', and then fails to give any figures, mentioning only that fans in
Chicago have a lot of choices.

Fortunately the NCAA publishes attendance figures.  Unfortunately, our
attendance continues to be pretty weak.

Many have alluded to the 'exciting games' for this year's team, but it
hasn't seemed to carry over to the box office.

92   32,989
93   30,965
94   34,382
95   38,230
96   42,310
97   41,868
98   40,907
99   30,845
00   33,498
01   33,763
02   28,611
03   28,771
04   28,408

Some of our peer institutions are way ahead of us - Stanford, 45,000 per
game, BC 43,000 per game, Army  36,000 per game, Navy 30,000 per
game...Even Baylor is averaging almost 30,000 per game.

We became the first school in the modern era to see their attendance erode
by 25% in one year when it plummeted from 40,907 in 98 to 30,845 in 99.

All of this after a pretty major upgrade to facilities.

The team is turning in .500 seasons and generally exciting games - why is
attendance so bad ?  Can RW draw crowds in Chicago ?

Chuck Herron   Tech '85

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  8 16:22:57 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Wed Dec  8 16:24:07 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <3EAF0229.66082B5F.0A143833@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041208222257.51826.qmail@web52004.mail.yahoo.com>

> 04   28,408

Thanks for pulling together the numbers.

I was real disappointed in the turnout this year, especially after we
beat OSU (and remember, that average includes a sellout for the OSU
game, due to 60% or so OSU fan attendance).

Two things come to mind: ticket prices and TV.

If anyone has too much free time, and can find a way to get the data,
I'd love to see the average NU ticket prices over that same span of
years. Might prove informative. I know that the prices this year were
almost steep enough to dissuade us from renewing season tix. 

Also, almost every home game was on TV this year, yes? I wonder how
many folks considering going to a game look at the ticket price, check
the TV guide, and decide to stay home and watch it on TV instead?

I have no idea if these explain the poor attendance or not, but I'd be
surprised if they weren't at least part of the answer.

That drop from 98 to 99 is interesting too. I'd guess it is mostly to
do with how bad the 98 team was, and maybe with the publicity and
"style" of Barnett's departure, but it's still surprising. 

Tom

From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  8 16:34:31 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Wed Dec  8 16:35:42 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>
Message-ID: <20041208223431.49118.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>

To partially answer my own question, here are ticket prices for this
year:

6 games, if purchased individually: $220 (avg. = $36.67)

6 games, season ticket price: $170 (avg. = $28.33)

So, a big discount for season ticket purchasers (thankfully), but a
pretty steep hit ($40 for a Big Ten game) for anyone purchasing a
single-game ticket. Add handling charges to the above if ordered ahead
of time.

Note: NU did offer 1/2 endzone seats this year ($15 non-con, $20 Big
Ten game)--the averages above do not include those. It's a good diea,
but personally I'd recommend they sell the end-zone seats for $5 or $10
max a game. There were also some 3 pack options that gave a slight
discount on a set of three games. 

Too much? I don't know, but it's a lot.

Tom

From MBarnard at ttwireless.com  Wed Dec  8 16:35:35 2004
From: MBarnard at ttwireless.com (Matt Barnard)
Date: Wed Dec  8 16:36:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <95CD536B0A384C4DB51CBC5F3AD7AFE0D54367@mail1.ttcs.net>

I remember that when I ran a regression on different factors affecting
attendance that current-year success is not a strong predictor of
current-year attendance.

Rather, the combined winning percentage of the prior 2 years was the
strongest predictor of current-year attendance (around 40%) with a very
small effect from the head coach variable.  History (albeit recent)
matters.  If that holds, we should see an increase next year - though
not huge.

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Maycock
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:23 PM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes

> 04   28,408

Thanks for pulling together the numbers.

I was real disappointed in the turnout this year, especially after we
beat OSU (and remember, that average includes a sellout for the OSU
game, due to 60% or so OSU fan attendance).

Two things come to mind: ticket prices and TV.

If anyone has too much free time, and can find a way to get the data,
I'd love to see the average NU ticket prices over that same span of
years. Might prove informative. I know that the prices this year were
almost steep enough to dissuade us from renewing season tix. 

Also, almost every home game was on TV this year, yes? I wonder how
many folks considering going to a game look at the ticket price, check
the TV guide, and decide to stay home and watch it on TV instead?

I have no idea if these explain the poor attendance or not, but I'd be
surprised if they weren't at least part of the answer.

That drop from 98 to 99 is interesting too. I'd guess it is mostly to
do with how bad the 98 team was, and maybe with the publicity and
"style" of Barnett's departure, but it's still surprising. 

Tom

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Wed Dec  8 16:45:44 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Wed Dec  8 16:50:50 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>
References: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>
Message-ID: <41B78417.2070806@hilgraeve.com>

I think that Sanford is onto something with regard to the non-con games.

Every school should have a built in new audience every year with 
incoming freshmen.  Students (and their parents) are a major source for 
ongoing season ticket sales. 

The slow NU starts the past several years is going to depress that 
market.  By the time they get to school and we would hope to begin 
encouraging them to become loyal NU fans, the team is 0-2.

Also the student section doesn't seem nearly so rowdy and hardcore as it 
has been in previous seasons.  Any season ticket holders see the same 
thing?  Two years ago at the Michigan game it was embarrassing to see 
the student section empty by the fourth quarter and Michigan fans 
(presumably students) running around the empty seats celebrating.  I was 
tempted to go out a tackle a few of them but my wife talked me out of 
it.  <g>

Jeff




Sanford_Stein@rush.edu wrote:

>
>
>Why is attendance so bad?
>
>1.  Ticket prices?  They've doubled since the peak attendance years of the
>late 1990's.
>      I know that they're not out of line with the Big Ten (and the %
>increase not out of line with pro
>      teams), but how do they compare to the "peer institutions" mentioned
>below?  I know a ticket
>      at Duke three years ago was only $22.
>
>2.  Two non-conference home games a year before the students are in school?
>This probably
>      drags down the average compared with those schools that start in
>August.
>      (Do we have the Big Ten game numbers?)
>
>
>
>
>
>For reasons that have never been quite clear to me, the NU Football Media
>Guide publishes a page called (something like) 'Ryan Field Attendance
>Figures', and then fails to give any figures, mentioning only that fans in
>Chicago have a lot of choices.
>
>Fortunately the NCAA publishes attendance figures.  Unfortunately, our
>attendance continues to be pretty weak.
>
>Many have alluded to the 'exciting games' for this year's team, but it
>hasn't seemed to carry over to the box office.
>
>92   32,989
>93   30,965
>94   34,382
>95   38,230
>96   42,310
>97   41,868
>98   40,907
>99   30,845
>00   33,498
>01   33,763
>02   28,611
>03   28,771
>04   28,408
>
>Some of our peer institutions are way ahead of us - Stanford, 45,000 per
>game, BC 43,000 per game, Army  36,000 per game, Navy 30,000 per
>game...Even Baylor is averaging almost 30,000 per game.
>
>We became the first school in the modern era to see their attendance erode
>by 25% in one year when it plummeted from 40,907 in 98 to 30,845 in 99.
>
>All of this after a pretty major upgrade to facilities.
>
>The team is turning in .500 seasons and generally exciting games - why is
>attendance so bad ?  Can RW draw crowds in Chicago ?
>
>Chuck Herron   Tech '85
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>
>  
>


From Thiegs.Joe at dorsey.com  Wed Dec  8 17:06:30 2004
From: Thiegs.Joe at dorsey.com (Thiegs, Joe)
Date: Wed Dec  8 17:08:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <2CD41DCE130DA64B9C0592CC8968112003629338@mpex15.dorseylaw.corp>

I remember that--that was a great thread!  Took me back to the days of my SPSS class at NU....

The Big Ten single-game ticket prices are too steep for NU, IMHO.  If seats to 'Cat games were a hot commodity, it would be a different story, but that's not the case and hasn't been so for close to a decade now. Cut it back $5 or $10, and I bet there'd be an overall net revenue gain within a year or two as more tickets sold made up for lost $$ due to the price cut.  OTOH, if that doesn't work, then you're stuck with low attendance AND less revenue from the lower ticket prices.  It could be a worthwhile experiment, though.  The season tickets seem priced about right to me, and although the discount is a nice incentive, I don't know that the discount has to be as great as it is.  I.e., it would be okay with me if the single-game ticket prices came down closer to the per-game season ticket prices.  I say this, in full disclosure, as someone who can only travel to Evanston once a year or so for an NU game and therefore has only bought single-game seats in recent years.  -Joe 

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:36 PM
To: Tom Maycock; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes


I remember that when I ran a regression on different factors affecting
attendance that current-year success is not a strong predictor of
current-year attendance.

Rather, the combined winning percentage of the prior 2 years was the
strongest predictor of current-year attendance (around 40%) with a very
small effect from the head coach variable.  History (albeit recent)
matters.  If that holds, we should see an increase next year - though
not huge.

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Maycock
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:23 PM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes

> 04   28,408

Thanks for pulling together the numbers.

I was real disappointed in the turnout this year, especially after we
beat OSU (and remember, that average includes a sellout for the OSU
game, due to 60% or so OSU fan attendance).

Two things come to mind: ticket prices and TV.

If anyone has too much free time, and can find a way to get the data,
I'd love to see the average NU ticket prices over that same span of
years. Might prove informative. I know that the prices this year were
almost steep enough to dissuade us from renewing season tix. 

Also, almost every home game was on TV this year, yes? I wonder how
many folks considering going to a game look at the ticket price, check
the TV guide, and decide to stay home and watch it on TV instead?

I have no idea if these explain the poor attendance or not, but I'd be
surprised if they weren't at least part of the answer.

That drop from 98 to 99 is interesting too. I'd guess it is mostly to
do with how bad the 98 team was, and maybe with the publicity and
"style" of Barnett's departure, but it's still surprising. 

Tom

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec  8 17:25:21 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 17:32:35 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <41B78417.2070806@hilgraeve.com>
References: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>
	<41B78417.2070806@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <49902.66.170.160.162.1102548321.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

> I think that Sanford is onto something with regard to the non-con games.
>
Yup - they scheduled their home opener against San Jose State ... a
regional "rival" that no doubt brought a good chunk of fans as well.

I remember our opener NIU in 2000 ... even for a weeknight, the Huskies
brought more fans than I remember any non-Big Ten foe to Ryan Field.

Also remember that Stanford gets Notre Dame at home every other year or so
... that has to help attendance as well.

But I think we've explored many of the factors before. The drop from '98
to '99 is clearly because Barnett left. He was the golden boy of college
coaches in 1995 and probably better known than Wannstead around town. He
was the image of the program and that sold to the bandwagon Chicago fans.

As solid of a job as I believe Walker has done on the field, he's just not
the personality that Barnett was around town. That falls on Walker and the
NU athletic department (again, Rick Taylor did a fine job in the office -
but he wasn't exactly reaching out during his term to the Chicago
bandwagon fans). We need to get it out there that NU games are exciting,
fun and in your backyard.

The folks have done some good things with Wildcat Alley, the reduction of
end zone seats, etc. but you don't see those publicized much to folks
outside the university. We get a higher percentage of students than most
-- if not all -- Big Ten schools and we have a good chunk of season ticket
holders as well (far more than when I first visited Dyche in 1992). But
our alumni are smaller in numbers and spread nationwide. We've gone about
as far as we can go with alumni and students. We need to embrace the
Chicagoland football fan looking for a fun family event or a thrilling
college game or a bargain.

> The slow NU starts the past several years is going to depress that
> market.  By the time they get to school and we would hope to begin
> encouraging them to become loyal NU fans, the team is 0-2.

Good point. With Barnett's departure, a lot of the air left the balloon
for the casual fan. We've certainly seen exciting football in Evanston
lately - but it doesn't get teh notice and those 0-2 starts hurt.

> Also the student section doesn't seem nearly so rowdy and hardcore as it
> has been in previous seasons.  Any season ticket holders see the same
> thing?

It definitely fell off this year. Dunno why - I believe that the tickets
are free again with a WildCard ... but they were subdued and in smaller
numbers than the past.

It's tough to explain -- we play exciting football. You'd think that would
attract some fans. But we do depend on visiting fans and catching the eye
of the casual Chicago bandwagon fan. ASU's golden shirt bloc was sure
vocal (and given the distance, I was surprised how many folks they
brought), but that may have been our second largest out-of-town fan base
of the season after all the red from Ohio State.

Purdue, Indiana, Illinois and Kansas would probably bring more fans for a
basketball game at Welsh-Ryan than they did to Ryan Field. And I'm certain
that those four programs would catch the eye of the casual Chicago sports
fan much, much more on the hardwood court than on the football field.

As for weather, aside from the Purdue windstorm, we had a pretty good year
again ... so I'm not sure how to answer this one. A lot on who we
schedule, a lot on how the coach and athletic department get their
name/face out in Chicagoland, a lot on prices and probably some on the
lack of tradition and pro sports mentality of Chicago.

The only thing we can rule out for sure is the product on the field ... a
5-1 home mark, three overtime wins, two more decided by 3 points and the
one loss a 9-point heartbreaker where we fumbled away a chance to take the
lead in the closing minutes. NU ticket holders certainly got more than
their money's worth. Surely we have some marketing whiz somewhere who can
make sure that the folks in Chicagoland know about it!

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From TyJLevine at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 18:28:13 2004
From: TyJLevine at aol.com (TyJLevine@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 18:29:31 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <192.34b6dc09.2ee8f61d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 12/8/2004 3:33:33 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
sjtruog@jorsm.com writes:

Yup -  they scheduled their home opener against San Jose State ... a
regional  "rival" that no doubt brought a good chunk of fans as well.

I remember  our opener NIU in 2000 ... even for a weeknight, the Huskies
brought more  fans than I remember any non-Big Ten foe to Ryan Field.

Also remember  that Stanford gets Notre Dame at home every other year or so
... that has  to help attendance as well.



San Jose State averages less  than 12K fans for their home games and  trust 
me NONE of them "travel" to Stanford to watch then play SJSU.  San  Jose State 
will be out of D1 football within 2 years.
 
Stanford also has counted on SJSU as an easy win the last five years but  
SJSU beat them a couple of times.
From MBarnard at ttwireless.com  Wed Dec  8 18:30:12 2004
From: MBarnard at ttwireless.com (Matt Barnard)
Date: Wed Dec  8 18:30:47 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <95CD536B0A384C4DB51CBC5F3AD7AFE0D5436A@mail1.ttcs.net>

One note - I did not test for ticket prices because I didn't have the
data for each year.  So, I can't comment on their effect.

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
On Behalf Of Thiegs, Joe
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:07 PM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes

I remember that--that was a great thread!  Took me back to the days of
my SPSS class at NU....

The Big Ten single-game ticket prices are too steep for NU, IMHO.  If
seats to 'Cat games were a hot commodity, it would be a different story,
but that's not the case and hasn't been so for close to a decade now.
Cut it back $5 or $10, and I bet there'd be an overall net revenue gain
within a year or two as more tickets sold made up for lost $$ due to the
price cut.  OTOH, if that doesn't work, then you're stuck with low
attendance AND less revenue from the lower ticket prices.  It could be a
worthwhile experiment, though.  The season tickets seem priced about
right to me, and although the discount is a nice incentive, I don't know
that the discount has to be as great as it is.  I.e., it would be okay
with me if the single-game ticket prices came down closer to the
per-game season ticket prices.  I say this, in full disclosure, as
someone who can only travel to Evanston once a year or so for an NU game
and therefore has only bought single-game seats in recent years.  -Joe 

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:36 PM
To: Tom Maycock; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes


I remember that when I ran a regression on different factors affecting
attendance that current-year success is not a strong predictor of
current-year attendance.

Rather, the combined winning percentage of the prior 2 years was the
strongest predictor of current-year attendance (around 40%) with a very
small effect from the head coach variable.  History (albeit recent)
matters.  If that holds, we should see an increase next year - though
not huge.

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Maycock
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:23 PM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes

> 04   28,408

Thanks for pulling together the numbers.

I was real disappointed in the turnout this year, especially after we
beat OSU (and remember, that average includes a sellout for the OSU
game, due to 60% or so OSU fan attendance).

Two things come to mind: ticket prices and TV.

If anyone has too much free time, and can find a way to get the data,
I'd love to see the average NU ticket prices over that same span of
years. Might prove informative. I know that the prices this year were
almost steep enough to dissuade us from renewing season tix. 

Also, almost every home game was on TV this year, yes? I wonder how
many folks considering going to a game look at the ticket price, check
the TV guide, and decide to stay home and watch it on TV instead?

I have no idea if these explain the poor attendance or not, but I'd be
surprised if they weren't at least part of the answer.

That drop from 98 to 99 is interesting too. I'd guess it is mostly to
do with how bad the 98 team was, and maybe with the publicity and
"style" of Barnett's departure, but it's still surprising. 

Tom

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From johnl at mac.com  Wed Dec  8 18:46:17 2004
From: johnl at mac.com (John Labbe)
Date: Wed Dec  8 18:46:31 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <49902.66.170.160.162.1102548321.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
References: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>
	<41B78417.2070806@hilgraeve.com>
	<49902.66.170.160.162.1102548321.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>
Message-ID: <1408689.1102553177084.JavaMail.johnl@mac.com>

Why we can't get anyone to attend our games (other than opposing fans) is a phenomenon I can't explain, other than the obvious facts that our alumni base is not as geographically concentrated as at other schools (see, e.g., Ohio State) and that historically football is not something our alumni cling to (see, e.g., Notre Dame, Michigan).

When talking about ticket prices, though, I think there are a few things to consider.

First, starting this year, student tickets were once again free (they were last free for football in 1994).  I think there was an additional student fee for this, but it was a mandatory fee and all students were entitled to attend games for free.  Nevertheless, having attended every home game, I'd have to say that the students did not attend in great numbers (with the exception of the Ohio State game).  If you can't get STUDENTS to attend the games for FREE, why do you think that you can get Joe Public Chicago to attend for $30 but not $40?  It's possible, but it seems there are other factors at work (i.e., people just don't want to attend our games).

Second, young alumni (graduates within the past 5 years) can buy half price season tickets for $85.  That's less than $15 per game.  And the young alumni section (which is adjacent to the student section) is not exactly sold out.

Third, although $40 Big Ten tickets are expensive, I think the ticket office has come up with some decent promotions, such as the half-price end zone tickets and the young alumni tickets.  The three packs (which I think were new for football this year) are also a pretty good deal.  Two Big Ten and one non-conf game for $90, or an average of $30 each.

Frankly, although I wouldn't mind tickets being cheaper, $170 for a season ticket for six games is a steal.  That's less than $30 a game on average.






On Wednesday, December 08, 2004, at 06:34PM, <sjtruog@jorsm.com> wrote:

>> I think that Sanford is onto something with regard to the non-con games.
>>
>Yup - they scheduled their home opener against San Jose State ... a
>regional "rival" that no doubt brought a good chunk of fans as well.
>
>I remember our opener NIU in 2000 ... even for a weeknight, the Huskies
>brought more fans than I remember any non-Big Ten foe to Ryan Field.
>
>Also remember that Stanford gets Notre Dame at home every other year or so
>... that has to help attendance as well.
>
>But I think we've explored many of the factors before. The drop from '98
>to '99 is clearly because Barnett left. He was the golden boy of college
>coaches in 1995 and probably better known than Wannstead around town. He
>was the image of the program and that sold to the bandwagon Chicago fans.
>
>As solid of a job as I believe Walker has done on the field, he's just not
>the personality that Barnett was around town. That falls on Walker and the
>NU athletic department (again, Rick Taylor did a fine job in the office -
>but he wasn't exactly reaching out during his term to the Chicago
>bandwagon fans). We need to get it out there that NU games are exciting,
>fun and in your backyard.
>
>The folks have done some good things with Wildcat Alley, the reduction of
>end zone seats, etc. but you don't see those publicized much to folks
>outside the university. We get a higher percentage of students than most
>-- if not all -- Big Ten schools and we have a good chunk of season ticket
>holders as well (far more than when I first visited Dyche in 1992). But
>our alumni are smaller in numbers and spread nationwide. We've gone about
>as far as we can go with alumni and students. We need to embrace the
>Chicagoland football fan looking for a fun family event or a thrilling
>college game or a bargain.
>
>> The slow NU starts the past several years is going to depress that
>> market.  By the time they get to school and we would hope to begin
>> encouraging them to become loyal NU fans, the team is 0-2.
>
>Good point. With Barnett's departure, a lot of the air left the balloon
>for the casual fan. We've certainly seen exciting football in Evanston
>lately - but it doesn't get teh notice and those 0-2 starts hurt.
>
>> Also the student section doesn't seem nearly so rowdy and hardcore as it
>> has been in previous seasons.  Any season ticket holders see the same
>> thing?
>
>It definitely fell off this year. Dunno why - I believe that the tickets
>are free again with a WildCard ... but they were subdued and in smaller
>numbers than the past.
>
>It's tough to explain -- we play exciting football. You'd think that would
>attract some fans. But we do depend on visiting fans and catching the eye
>of the casual Chicago bandwagon fan. ASU's golden shirt bloc was sure
>vocal (and given the distance, I was surprised how many folks they
>brought), but that may have been our second largest out-of-town fan base
>of the season after all the red from Ohio State.
>
>Purdue, Indiana, Illinois and Kansas would probably bring more fans for a
>basketball game at Welsh-Ryan than they did to Ryan Field. And I'm certain
>that those four programs would catch the eye of the casual Chicago sports
>fan much, much more on the hardwood court than on the football field.
>
>As for weather, aside from the Purdue windstorm, we had a pretty good year
>again ... so I'm not sure how to answer this one. A lot on who we
>schedule, a lot on how the coach and athletic department get their
>name/face out in Chicagoland, a lot on prices and probably some on the
>lack of tradition and pro sports mentality of Chicago.
>
>The only thing we can rule out for sure is the product on the field ... a
>5-1 home mark, three overtime wins, two more decided by 3 points and the
>one loss a 9-point heartbreaker where we fumbled away a chance to take the
>lead in the closing minutes. NU ticket holders certainly got more than
>their money's worth. Surely we have some marketing whiz somewhere who can
>make sure that the folks in Chicagoland know about it!
>
>GO CATS!!!
>-SjT
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>

From JHCCLARK at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 18:44:19 2004
From: JHCCLARK at aol.com (JHCCLARK@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 18:48:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <2FEA3441.38D482CE.006D6456@aol.com>

"6 games, if purchased individually: $220 (avg. = $36.67)

6 games, season ticket price: $170 (avg. = $28.33)

(...)

Too much? I don't know, but it's a lot."

Huh?  Michigan season tickets are $635.  $170 is a MEGA HUGE bargain.  

Why the attendance woes?

#1 - NU students are not usually from the Chicago area, unlike most other schools.  NU, like Ivy League schools, pulls in a national student body.  Therefore, there is no ingrained affinity for NU football.

#2 - NU alums don't usually stick around Chicago when they graduate, unlike most other schools.  The people who have loyalty to NU athletics just aren't in the area in numbers.

#3 - Small student body doesn't help #1 or #2 either.

#4 - 11am starts.  Who the #%&! wants to get up at 7am to make an 11am kickoff?  This REALLY hurts, especially if you have a social life and want to enjoy it on Friday nights.  Yes, yes, I know that ESPN and ABC are calling the shots.  Is the priority to be televised or attendance?  It may be that being on TV is more important, but the conference, ESPN and ABC should be able to think of something -- maybe having ESPN+ games at 1pm or even 2pm.

#5 - MORE NIGHT GAMES.  Attendance is always high at night games.  It is MUCH more fun, and you can go out drinking and eating afterwards, either in Evanston or Chicago.

#6 - Home games before the student body arrives.  This is the one that really cheeses me off.  You now have a bye week in October or November with the addition of Penn State.  (a) Schedule a non-conference creampuff for Homecoming, (b) start your season AWAY, and (c) have your first home game after the students arrive.  Stats show that you are more likely to lose after a bye-week anyway, so why take the chance?  Yes, "getting healthy" is important.  Gotta make a choice.

#7 - Schedule the home non-conf game in September with a local school.  NIU, Iowa State, Ball State, Western Michigan, Mizzou, Louisville, etc....  They should bring their fans with them and aid in attendance.

#8 - Tradition is not there (yet).  NU, like Indiana, just doesn't have the long "winning" tradition that other schools have.  The 70s and 80s permanently turned off a couple of generations of would-be NU fans.  I know it is sacrilege to say it, but NU's tradition in the minds of most 35-60 year olds is of a loser, not a winner.  BUT, this is changing among the new generations - just listen to what recruits think of NU football.

#9 - I do have a question -- what is the ratio of native-foreign students at NU?  I would guess that NU is a more global university and probably draws a larger foreign student population who have no clue what American football is.  Not only is there no love of NU football there, but there is no CONCEPT of the game itself or its traditions.

#10 - I do not agree with the argument that Chicagoans have other sports avenues for entertainment.  Detroit has all the pro teams, Minny, Cleveburg, Milwaukee.  I DO think that Chicagoans have other AVENUES for entertainment.  There are more things to do in general in Chicago than in most other places, with the exception of New York City and L.A.

#11 - Bring back the old Willie!  This "new" mascot (now nine years old) is ugly and cheap-looking, a real turn-off.  The Willie of 1995 was cute and had character.  Willie the Wildcat dolls would have gone over well with the little kids in the area, thereby raising NU awareness in the coming generations of locals.  Heck, it would have been smart to give them away just to increase awareness.  How about one that talked about NU football with a wristwatch that played "Go, U Northwestern"?  (this is me "outside the box")

From mlinhardt at netzero.com  Wed Dec  8 21:01:20 2004
From: mlinhardt at netzero.com (mlinhardt@netzero.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 21:04:00 2004
Subject: Fw: RE: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <20041208.190203.12310.138397@webmail18.nyc.untd.com>


>The Big Ten single-game ticket prices are too steep for NU, IMHO.  If >seats to 'Cat games were a hot commodity, it would be a different >story, but that's not the case and hasn't been so for close to a >decade now. Cut it back $5 or $10, and I bet there'd be an overall net >revenue gain within a year or two as more tickets sold made up for >lost $$ due to the price cut.  OTOH, if that doesn't work, then you're 

Please do not lower single game ticket prices!  The only ones that benefits are the opposing fans.  Give great deals for two-packs, three-packs, season tickets, etc. only and that will keep the opposing fans from buying all the seats.

Basketball has the same issue.  I can't make any weekday basketball games so I buy the pick-4/pick-5, which gives me an opportunity to sit with NU fans during the big ten season.  If not for that I would be surrounded by Ill-whine-i, Bad-grrrs, etc.

I have no idea how to improve attendance other than win or have the Bears move out of town.  At work(northwest suburbs) only a few people know any college scores, but everybody knows what the Bears and Packers did.  Chicago is just not a college sports town.  U of Michigan is more like a pro team for Detroiters.  Minnesota has horrid attendance even with a large immobile alumni base and major ticket discounts.  The rest of the Big Ten schools are the only game in town.

Note:  I am a season ticket holder in football and every year I think about buying basketball season tickets.

________________________________________________________________
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From khaderach at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec  8 21:19:33 2004
From: khaderach at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Bowser)
Date: Wed Dec  8 21:20:39 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <2FEA3441.38D482CE.006D6456@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041209031933.74117.qmail@web80810.mail.yahoo.com>


 
JHCCLARK@aol.com wrote: 
#4 - 11am starts. Who the #%&! wants to get up at 7am to make an 11am kickoff? This REALLY hurts, especially if you have a social life and want to enjoy it on Friday nights. Yes, yes, I know that ESPN and ABC are calling the shots. Is the priority to be televised or attendance? It may be that being on TV is more important, but the conference, ESPN and ABC should be able to think of something -- maybe having ESPN+ games at 1pm or even 2pm.

#8 - Tradition is not there (yet). NU, like Indiana, just doesn't have the long "winning" tradition that other schools have. The 70s and 80s permanently turned off a couple of generations of would-be NU fans. I know it is sacrilege to say it, but NU's tradition in the minds of most 35-60 year olds is of a loser, not a winner. BUT, this is changing among the new generations - just listen to what recruits think of NU football.

As a season ticket holder living in the Southwest suburbs of Chicago, I agree the 11:00 starts have been a significant factor. I have to get up at 4:30 or 5:00 AM to tailgate, and I can't convince a lot of people to join me at that hour. Even many people on the North side try to show up as late as possible, 10:30 or so. It was a lot easier to convince people to come to games at 1:00. The lack of tailgating space is probably another related factor. With the lots at the stadium full, any new ticketholders are out of luck for tailgating.
I also have found the idea that the team's performance over the last year or two definitely affects other people's interest in attending the current season. Coverage of the Cats is not that  great, and general awareness of the team's performance lags. By the time most peopl realized how exciting the games were this year, the season was over.
Bryan Bowser
CAS '92
KGSM '99
 
 
 
Secondly, 
 
 
 
  
From artmiller1 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  8 21:30:07 2004
From: artmiller1 at hotmail.com (Arthur Miller)
Date: Wed Dec  8 21:33:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <OFDAC11FAC.DF6B64C4-ON86256F64.0079375B-86256F64.007AAA65@rsh.net>
Message-ID: <BAY14-DAV1132D0B7AEC594EF5D4CC68AB70@phx.gbl>

Our attendance figures are indeed embarrassing and egregious.  Why on earth
are we averaging 6000 less per game than in '94, when NU hadn't had a
winning season in 20 years?  I can't figure this oiut.

I agree that the primary factor is ticket prices; $40 is simply too high.
Lower price = higher demand; this is a law of human nature.  Has anyone
noticed how many of the $20 end zone seats were sold this year?  Quite a
few, which to me is evidence that people will sit in the end zone to save a
few bucks when 30-yard line seats are available in the upper deck.

Increasing the total attendance is important; it's good for recruiting, it
contributes to the gameday atmosphere, and it honors our players.  If I was
Mark Murphy, I'd institute a ticket policy something like this:
- Implement tiered pricing based on who we're playing.  For the 2005
schedule, charge $20/ticket for the Ohio and NIU games, $30 for Penn State
and Iowa, and $40 for Wisconsin and Michigan as they always draw big crowds.
- Sell tickets in sections 101-103, 113-124, 134-36, 223-24, and 234-35 at
half the price of face value.
- Charge only $20/ticket/game for season ticket holders.  In any other
business, volume buyers get a discount--besides, season ticket holders are
the primary indicator of health in ticket sales.

-Art Miller


-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On
Behalf Of Sanford_Stein@rush.edu
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:20 PM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes





Why is attendance so bad?

1.  Ticket prices?  They've doubled since the peak attendance years of the
late 1990's.
      I know that they're not out of line with the Big Ten (and the %
increase not out of line with pro
      teams), but how do they compare to the "peer institutions" mentioned
below?  I know a ticket
      at Duke three years ago was only $22.

2.  Two non-conference home games a year before the students are in school?
This probably
      drags down the average compared with those schools that start in
August.
      (Do we have the Big Ten game numbers?)





For reasons that have never been quite clear to me, the NU Football Media
Guide publishes a page called (something like) 'Ryan Field Attendance
Figures', and then fails to give any figures, mentioning only that fans in
Chicago have a lot of choices.

Fortunately the NCAA publishes attendance figures.  Unfortunately, our
attendance continues to be pretty weak.

Many have alluded to the 'exciting games' for this year's team, but it
hasn't seemed to carry over to the box office.

92   32,989
93   30,965
94   34,382
95   38,230
96   42,310
97   41,868
98   40,907
99   30,845
00   33,498
01   33,763
02   28,611
03   28,771
04   28,408

Some of our peer institutions are way ahead of us - Stanford, 45,000 per
game, BC 43,000 per game, Army  36,000 per game, Navy 30,000 per
game...Even Baylor is averaging almost 30,000 per game.



From pminerva at horizonconsultingservices.net  Wed Dec  8 22:54:09 2004
From: pminerva at horizonconsultingservices.net (Paul Minerva)
Date: Wed Dec  8 22:56:46 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] No Blue/Grey game
References: <200412062122.iB6LMEdc022901@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <BAY23-DAV11CEBE176BFE7375706D6EC4B70@phx.gbl>

I wonder if there could be a sponsor for the Red states versus the Blue States!!!!



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mike Nolan<mailto:nolan@romaine.tssi.com> 
  To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com<mailto:nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com> 
  Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:22 PM
  Subject: [NU Sports] No Blue/Grey game


  The Blue/Grey game has been cancelled for 2004 because it does not have
  a sponsor.  That's the 2nd time in 3 years the game has been cancelled.
  (The organizers would like to move it to the Saturday after the bowl
  games in the hopes of attracting more players.)

  Any Cats who were hoping to play in it to attract the attention of NFL 
  scouts are out of luck.
  --
  Mike Nolan

  _______________________________________________
  nwu-sports site list
  nwu-sports@tssi.com<mailto:nwu-sports@tssi.com>
  http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports<http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports>
From NUMBalum78 at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 23:02:37 2004
From: NUMBalum78 at aol.com (NUMBalum78@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 23:04:07 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hawaii officiating 
Message-ID: <1d9.31ae6e92.2ee9366d@aol.com>


I was in attendance at the NU vs. Hawaii game, and it was the worst example 
of "officiating" I've ever seen -- and that includes high school games.  It was 
obvious from the successive penalties that began the game that the refs were 
looking for ANY opportunity to throw the flag on Northwestern, while turning a 
blind eye to Hawaii's infractions, most notably constant, egregious holding 
by the (much smaller) Hawaii line.  

The worst examples: 

In the second quarter, Hawaii's receiver clearly stepped out of bounds AT 
LEAST TWICE while running down the sideline.  The refs still called it a 
touchdown. 

On Hawaii's kick return for a touchdown, Huffman was blatantly blocked in the 
back while trying to tackle the Hawaii returner.  No flag. 

The refs kept calling 15-yard "kick-catch interference" penalties on NU -- 
essentially invoking the halo rule.  Only problem is, the halo rule doesn't 
exist anymore.  One of our guys running PAST the receiver is not interference!!!  

Worst of all, Baz's last pass with less than 2 minutes left in the game 
CLEARLY hit the turf before being jumped on by a Hawaii defender.  It wasn't even 
close to being an interception, but that's what the refs called it anyway.  
That bogus call effectively ended the game, when NU should have had a decent 
chance of sending the game into overtime.  


Now if this had just been the Northwestern game, I might have chalked it up 
to sloppy officiating and nothing more.  But if you put our game together with 
the lousy officiating in the MSU game, something really starts to look 
suspicious in Oahu.  (MSU had two touchdowns called back on questionable holding 
penalties, and they were flagged for 119 yards in penalties while Hawaii hardly 
got any calls against them.)  Combine this with the fact that the head ref at 
the MSU game actually LIVES in Hawaii, and it really starts to reek of bias.  
Whatever happened to the concept of bringing in a neutral officiating crew for a 
non-conference game?  

So am I trying to excuse NU's poor play in Hawaii?   Not at all, nor am I 
ignoring our lousy play-calling.   But none of that excuses potentially CORRUPT 
officiating that swung the game to Hawaii.  In my opinion, the officiating at 
the NU and MSU games demands an investigation -- and I've never said that about 
any other game in my life.  I don't know for sure whether the crews came from 
the WAC, but with at least one bowl game on the line, the Big Ten really 
ought to review what happened in Hawaii.  Two Big Ten teams definitely got jobbed 
in Aloha Stadium this year.  



In a message dated 12/8/2004 12:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
spiritu@northwestern.edu writes:
Given the way the B10 was jobbed by refs while playing in Hawai'i this
year, I'm not sure we *didn't* deserve better than sitting at home for the
holidays.

Did I miss any posts describing exactly where the refs were from?  Also,
does anyone know if the same refs "officiated" at the next game where MSU
got jobbed worse than we did?
From JHCCLARK at aol.com  Wed Dec  8 23:50:57 2004
From: JHCCLARK at aol.com (JHCCLARK@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec  8 23:54:53 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
Message-ID: <32963B04.3FEA95D5.006D6456@aol.com>

"I agree that the primary factor is ticket prices; $40 is simply too high."

My $.02.  I disagree.

The $40 price is the max on any ticket -- most tickets, as explained in earlier posts, are around $20 or less, with students in for free.  It isn't the price of the tickets, which are FAR below what other schools charge.  

Bulls, Bears, Cubs, Sox, that hockey team (what IS their name...) are $40 or more, but people pay that.  And da Bears have stunk for a long long time.  People will pay max $40 for a football game.  I do.  You can't go to a football game for less.

What people won't do is get up at an un-Godly hour on a Saturday morning to tailgate on brats and burgers and (shhh) drink beer.

The main difference between 1994's attendance and that in 2004 is the 11am start.  ESPN and ABC had not implemented the noon/3:30pm EST games in full force in 1994 -- it was just starting.  

And another school has noticed that the early start times have had an effect on attendance...

Michigan officials have noticed that the stands at Michigan Stadium are not full during the first quarter of noon EST games.  This was never a problem when games started at 2pm EST (and then 1pm EST), and it certainly is not a problem with 3:30pm starts now.

Again, why the full houses for late-starting games at NU and not for the early bird specials?  Answer:  it is too @#$! early.  Stop the Madness.

From bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  9 04:58:35 2004
From: bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Thu Dec  9 04:59:49 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] time and money
In-Reply-To: <200412091000.iB9A04Qb020173@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <20041209105835.87348.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com>

I think that while high ticket prices might cause some
problems for some people, esp. families, I don't think
$$$ is the reason our games are poorly attended. The
season tickets are a steal and the end zone prices
seem very fair.

Also, anyone who's been to Dyche knows that you can
buy reasonably-priced tickets from people selling
outside the stadium. My group of 5 wound up at the
35-yard-line for Illinois buying the tickets from a
nice older man at about 10:45 or so at 1/2 face value.

But let me EMPHACTICALLY chime in that the 11 a.m.
starts are just killers. They make going to away games
a dawn-patrol proposition and even at home, it's too
early. For NU fans such as I who travel to home games
1-2 times a year from a distance (Philadelphia in my
case) I make a whole weekend out of it and it annoys
me that my Friday night activities have to be tempered
by the knowledge that I have to get up so early to get
to the game. And for college students, 11 a.m. IS
dawn. I imagine many people feel the same way.

This will never change though; colleges are absolute
whores for TV and will do anything ESPN/ABC wants (San
Jose State's 9 a.m. start comes to mind), though I do
remember Penn State refusing to switch a Homecoming
game to a later start because it would screw up the
larger Homecoming schedule. At least, other than the
Goophers' baseball-related screwups, the Big Ten
hasn't inflicted Tuesday or Thursday football on us.
Yet.

Brad Wilson





=====
"Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 

"Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
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From bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  9 05:05:02 2004
From: bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Thu Dec  9 05:06:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] old willie ruled/good recruit news
In-Reply-To: <200412091000.iB9A04Qb020173@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <20041209110502.78232.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com>

Oops -- also wanted to second Mr. Clark on Willie --
the new one looks like Willi E. Coyote after an
all-night crystal meth bash. It's awful. The old one
was cute and cuddly and charming. Bring back old
Willie!!! 

Also, I was speaking to an Ohio-based scholastic
football coach tonight for a story and he said Tyrell
Sutton is absolutely tremendous and said that while
he's a little small, he'd compare him to Clarett (on
the field, of course!). Of course, all the Pa. people
thought Austin Scott would be the next Curt Warner,
but, still, good to hear such a ringing endorsement
(might Sutton play as a true frosh?)

Brad Wilson

=====
"Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 

"Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From DPENDERG at aol.com  Thu Dec  9 06:14:11 2004
From: DPENDERG at aol.com (DPENDERG@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec  9 06:15:44 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] OSU Game Tape
Message-ID: <96.1c1234c8.2ee99b93@aol.com>

I'm interested in getting the OSU game tape (VCR or DVD) for a Xmas gift to  
another avid NU alumnus/football fan.  Anybody help or can offer  suggestions? 
 I'd pay for copying/mail costs. Reply directly to  dpenderg@aol.com.
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  9 07:39:34 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  9 07:45:09 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] R.C. Lagomarsino
Message-ID: <00ce01c4ddf4$857df640$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Those who were worried about him missing the Official Visit Saturday should take
heart that he's reported on Purple Reign/Scout.com that he's still got NU at the
top of his list.

The Cats are apparently recruiting the stud RB as a Wide Receiver, and while he
likes running the ball, he seems excited by the possibilities at Northwestern.


More on all this is in a story Spread It Out
[http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328252&nid=1270896&fhn=1]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From randy at 1702.org  Thu Dec  9 08:49:35 2004
From: randy at 1702.org (Randy Wilson)
Date: Thu Dec  9 08:48:45 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <32963B04.3FEA95D5.006D6456@aol.com>
References: <32963B04.3FEA95D5.006D6456@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41B865FF.1050706@1702.org>

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Hash: SHA1

JHCCLARK@aol.com wrote:
| The $40 price is the max on any ticket -- most tickets, as explained
in earlier posts, are around $20 or
| less, with students in for free.  It isn't the price of the tickets,
which are FAR below what other schools
| charge.

However, $40 IS the price on the tickets we're NOT selling. So, clearly
if there were more $20 tickets and less $40 tickets attendance would be
higher. It IS the price.
- -Randy

- --
Reclaim The Web!
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox

Reclaim Your Inbox!
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird
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From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  9 09:34:58 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  9 09:40:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/9
Message-ID: <00d101c4de04$a5e091d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Thursday Edition **

Lots of Basketball including some preview info on future opponents, Football has
lots of Recruiting and more on Coaches, etc. There's Miscellany today, and some
Alumni news too...


                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more

Way to go folks -- one more time!
+ Big Ten Announces Fall Academic All-Conference Teams
 http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/genrel/120804aab.html 
NU Has 60 Athletes Receive Academic All-Big Ten
 http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/120804aab.html 

Men's BASKETBALL

     Hachad, Cats finally shake early doldrums
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-09-04-453816.
html 
     Sports Xchange: Wildcats report: Strategy and personnel
      http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/teams/report/NW/7977304 
     + Getting inside
      http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/teams/report/NW/7977305 
     + Notes, quotes
      http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/teams/report/NW/7977306 

     Taking those Finals - So here are some pictures...once again they caught me
with my mouth open ...
     2004 Fast Break Club Dinner At Norris Center
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/120704aaa.html 

Commentary:

     Fire Who? [POD]
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/328408.html 

Next up: DePaul:

     De Paul [12/15
     Blue Demons Dish Out A Victory
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1941 

Looking Ahead:

     Seton Hall [12/18]
     Allen's Lifts Men's Basketball Past St. Francis (N.Y.), 57-56
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2364 
     + Escapes but weakness is exposed
 
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110257503418860.xml 
     Arizona State [12/20]
     Its all Sun Bowl...
     Devils Edge Pesky Matadors
      http://arizonastate.scout.com/2/326380.html 

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     No game until Saturday

     Delaware State [12/27]


     Texas-Pan American 12/31]
     Slow Start Leads to Setback for Broncs
      http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120704aaa.html 
     + Broncs Capture 83-72 Victory over SHSU
      http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120404aaa.html 

Other Big 10:

     A game for history majors
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041208irishgamer,0,323
1036.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Irish carve out rare 'W' on Hoosiers' turf
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nd09.html 

     Weber urges minds over chatter
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ill09.html 
     Seeking capital gains
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041208illinihoops,0,51
67280.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     PC gone mad!
     Oregon-Illini game survives mascot flap
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041208illinibrite,0,24
14749.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats swept at own invite
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-09-04-456395.
html 

FOOTBALL

     Notre Dame hasn't inquired about NU's Walker, AD says
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38330146 

Commentary:



Big 10

     Illini players say Zook is the coach they wanted all along
      http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=26747210 

     Big names in game for IU job - Cutcliffe, Solich, Cooper show interest
 
http://nwitimes.com/articles/2004/12/09/sports/college_sports/d9503ce945178aaf86
256f650003a415.txt 

RECRUITING

     Larry Watts gets into recruiting...
     Early returns indicate Cats making impact
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-09-04-454095.
html 

     R.C. Lagomarsino Spread It Out
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328252&nid=1270896&fhn=1 
     Stephen Garr Unofficial Visit on Tuesday
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328094&nid=918576&fhn=1 
     Christopher Douglas All Over the Map
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328066&nid=1179443&fhn=1 
     Terrence Jamison $ Badgers lead for Jamison
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=328243 
     Stephen Benamin $ Getting To Know Stephen Benjamin
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=328238 
     Patrick Kuntz $ Kuntz Closing In On Decision
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=328067 
     $ No. 50 Defensive Tackle Impressed
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=327953 

     Colin McIntosh Unsigned Senior Goes for 21
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328190&nid=1167827&fhn=1 

Miscellany

     NU's Varsity Letter Award Ceremony made Ms. Magazine.
     Leveling the Playing Field, Then and Now
      http://www.msmagazine.com/blog/archives/2004/12/leveling_the_pl.html 

     Whoa, how about this?
     ND president criticizes Willingham firing
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041208irishmalloy,0,79
85331.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + ND coaching search turns to Clements
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041207irishcoachclemen
ts,0,1420329.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Bills assistant tops ND's revised list
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ndfb09.html 
     + Taylor: Notre Dame won't know what it's missing
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/phil_taylor/12/06/nd.willingham/in
dex.html 
     + Urban renewal begins at Florida
      http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=26747209 

Alumni

     Barry Gardner - Still listed as starting at MLB
      http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/depth_chart_text.php 
     + But Cervical Stinger makes him "probable"
      http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/injury.php 
     + Appears to have Won His MLB Job Back...
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328367&nid=1151368&fhn=1 
     + Berea Report: Luke Set to Go
      http://browns.scout.com/2/328150.html 
     + Browns Player News and Notes
      http://browns.scout.com/2/327677.html 

     This one is pretty funny - about the new Brown's QB
      http://mb6.scout.com/fbrownsinsiderfrm15.showMessage?topicID=34020.topic 

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* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
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* WNUR Via Real Audio 
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* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
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 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Thu Dec  9 10:10:07 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Thu Dec  9 10:15:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendence ideas
Message-ID: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>

One place to look for guidance is UoM.  They sell out virtually every 
game in the largest stadium in the country.  There has been some 
speculation already with regard to how they do it - large school, less 
professional sports competition, less mobile alumni, winning football 
teams, etc.

The reality though, is that there was a time not too long ago when they 
were (at least in a relative sense) in the same position that we find 
ourselves now.  That was the last sixties.  The football team had come 
off a mediocre decade and the stadium was rarely sold out.

The new AD Don Canham re-invented the whole stadium experience and in 
the process gave birth to the whole field of sports marketing.  Some of 
his innovations include tail gating, branded  items, logo marketing, and 
"personality" broadcasters.  One of the major reasons why the stadium 
fills every home game today is that his legacy of event marketing.  
During the dark days, he used to have a band day when he would invite HS 
bands from across the state to come and play before, during, and after 
the games.  He knew that for every kid in the band, there were two 
parents in the stands.  He would invite enough HS bands to be assured of 
a sellout for at least that game even if that meant twenty or more.

His stated philosophy was to turn Michigan tickets into a scarse 
comodity.  He figured that the harder it was to get a ticket, the more 
desirable they became.  He didn't care if he gave away half of the 
tickets, as long as the other half were sold. 

He was smart enough to also hire a series of successful coaches 
(starting with Bo) and shepherd the rebirth of Michigan as a national 
football power.  But there are plenty of teams that win a lot of 
football games that don't sell out their stadiums like Michigan does.

If we want to fill the seats at Dyche (Ryan), we're going to need our 
own version of Don Canham.

It's sort of like the airline model because those empty seats are a 
perishable commodity.  We don't get to sell them once the game starts.  
So if we are reasonably certain that they aren't going to get sold, why 
not give them away to people we are sure are going to want to come 
(apparently not undergrads)?  We could bus HS kids in from the burbs and 
the city.  We could make them available to pee-wee football leagues.  We 
could copy the band idea.  We could partner with Chicago tourism to put 
together cheap tour package deals.  This isn't my job, so I'm not going 
to be nearly so good at is as a Don Canham disciple, but I don't see 
evidence of this sort of single-minded passion to fill up the stadium. 

I guess the bottom line message is that it didn't happen by accident or 
organically at UoM and it probably won't happen by accident or 
organically in Evanston either.

Jeff


From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  9 10:27:40 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Thu Dec  9 10:28:51 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance Woes
In-Reply-To: <41B865FF.1050706@1702.org>
Message-ID: <20041209162740.26908.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com>

> 
> However, $40 IS the price on the tickets we're NOT selling. So,
> clearly
> if there were more $20 tickets and less $40 tickets attendance would
> be
> higher. It IS the price.

Right. As someone said, the season ticket price is a pretty good deal,
although it's still a significant chunk of change, but only the
"converted" are popping for season tickets. 

For someone thinking mid-season "Hey, the Cats are pretty good this
year. It might be fun to go to a game.", I'm guessing that $40 ticket
is somewhat off-putting.

Based on what I'm hearing from other posters, that 11am start time
thing is sounding pretty significant as well. 

Tom

From MHRJGScott at aol.com  Thu Dec  9 11:46:20 2004
From: MHRJGScott at aol.com (MHRJGScott@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec  9 11:50:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendence ideas
Message-ID: <198.33cbdc0a.2ee9e96c@aol.com>

 
As a Kellogg marketing guy I would agree.  Florida does that in  spades. You 
have to be a big donor, pay many dollars and know somebody to get a  ticket to 
the swamp.

His  stated philosophy was to turn Michigan tickets into a scarce  
commodity.  He figured that the harder it was to get a ticket, the  more 
desirable they became.  He didn't care if he gave away half of  the 
tickets, as long as the other half were sold.  





From cdueltgen at gmail.com  Thu Dec  9 12:14:00 2004
From: cdueltgen at gmail.com (Cynthia Dueltgen)
Date: Thu Dec  9 12:15:07 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendence ideas
In-Reply-To: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>
References: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <2268a9e804120910141fbc627d@mail.gmail.com>

Don't we still do Band Day?  We sure did it when I was an undergrad. 
But it only seemed to bring high school kids and not their parents. 
Add to that the 11am kickoff and the parents are probably glad to have
the kids up and out of the house early on a Saturday.

I really think the 11am kickoff time has a lot to do with it.  It's
really hard to drink those two free beers in wildcat alley and still
be in the seats to see NUMB do pregame. :)  And I've usually flown in
from California the night before, so it's even earlier for me.  The
night games are fun, plenty of time to tailgate, but I'd be happy with
us occasionally getting the 3:30ET kickoff for tv and not the noon.

Now when I'm at home watching on the game plan in the pacific time
zone it works out well because I just stay in bed until halftime and
then make breakfast.  No, wait, I still hate the early kickoff. :)

-Cynthia (season ticket holder even though I live 2000 miles away)

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:10:07 -0500, Jeff Beamsley <jeffb@hilgraeve.com> wrote:
> The new AD Don Canham re-invented the whole stadium experience and in
> the process gave birth to the whole field of sports marketing.  Some of
> his innovations include tail gating, branded  items, logo marketing, and
> "personality" broadcasters.  One of the major reasons why the stadium
> fills every home game today is that his legacy of event marketing.
> During the dark days, he used to have a band day when he would invite HS
> bands from across the state to come and play before, during, and after
> the games.  He knew that for every kid in the band, there were two
> parents in the stands.  He would invite enough HS bands to be assured of
> a sellout for at least that game even if that meant twenty or more.
>
> Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 
>

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Thu Dec  9 13:25:44 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Thu Dec  9 13:33:09 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendence ideas
In-Reply-To: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>
References: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <53134.66.170.163.100.1102620344.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

> I guess the bottom line message is that it didn't happen by accident or
> organically at UoM and it probably won't happen by accident or
> organically in Evanston either.

Good points -- we definitely need some new strategists in there ...
another problem is the university's rocky relation with Evanston and vice
versa. Giving away large unsold blocks of tickets to local schools and
organizations for free would be along those lines of filling the stadium
and it could help community relations.

Maybe something like a student rewards program where students earn four or
eight free tickets (to encourage taking family and friends -- more
locals!) for things like good grades, good attendance, good improvement in
school, etc. They could be given a packet to take home with the free
ticket offer, a map to the stadium with bus/el/metra line and parking info
... info on Wildcat Alley, etc. to encourage local families to make a day
of it. All building a base of local fans and embracing the community while
having an underlying purpose of supporting academic achievement.

As for the other ideas, quickly ...

- I'll second the parking situation. It's not awful (Madison has gotta be
the worst for big lots right by the stadium), but it's often only 1/2 to
2/3 filled on gamedays. It irks season ticket holders like myself who are
lower on the points scale to find a spot elsewhere and walk past the lots
full of empty spaces and -- even worse -- VISITING fans tailgating. How'd
they get in?

- Agreement again on the old Willie. And add to that a ban on that stupid
Air Willie copycat of that annoying Nebraska puff mascot. Many times I've
wished for someone to have a few darts at the stadium to pop the air out
of that stupid thing as he bobs along the sideline.

- As for the kickoffs ... I can see both sides there. On one hand, it does
get us big-time TV coverage (and with the Big Ten not wanting to go the
Thursday night rout ... which I agree with though I'd love to see it done
once to tick Telander off even more:), we only have a limited Saturday
night slots available) on a national scale. But it is a pain to get up so
early ... even for the hour drive from NW Indiana here (even worse my
first few years in Battle Creek with that drive:) ... but I did have the
time change, which is why Michigan fans can't complain too much about noon
kickoffs).

The league may be working on that, though -- there were at least 2-3 Big
Ten games at 2:30 or 3:30 on ESPN this year ... even if ABC had a 2:30
game as well (Wisconsin/Purdue comes to mind ... also Purdue/Iowa and
Iowa/Wisconsin - though the Badger/Hawkeye one didn't have a Big Ten ABC
game to compete).

But I do think we've done about all we can with students and alumni (maybe
better parking, but we can't make student tix any more free:) ) ... and we
have an exciting product to sell ... the focus needs to be on the Evanston
community and Chicago bandwagoners who might hop on the El to watch a
game.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

From jonathanwhodges at gmail.com  Thu Dec  9 13:09:09 2004
From: jonathanwhodges at gmail.com (Jonathan Hodges)
Date: Thu Dec  9 14:17:33 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendence ideas
In-Reply-To: <2268a9e804120910141fbc627d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>
	<2268a9e804120910141fbc627d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcb3ee2704120911091b97b664@mail.gmail.com>

This year on September 18th (Kansas game) was the first time Band Day
has been held at NU since the natural grass was installed prior to
1997.  Athletics is very protective of the grass field; nobody,
including both the band and team, can be on the field any time except
game day.  It was voted the best playing turf in 2000 by the national
groundskeepers association, though.  There is a trend now going to the
field turf around the country (the field turf is actually very nice
and there are not as many injuries on it), and NU is probably going to
install it on one of the practice fields soon.

The current NUMB director, Dan Farris, did a lot of lobbying and set
up Band Day again this year - and we had NUMB plus 13 other bands on
the field for the game.  It worked out very well and it will most
likely be continued in the future.  That game was also during New
Student Week, so the majority of students were on campus and there was
a very good turnout for the game.  Unfortunately, that trend did not
continue through the season (except for OSU).

Game time may very well be a factor in decreased attendance, but
Athletics makes more than enough money from the Big Ten TV contracts
to make up for that.  That is why it will probably not change anytime
soon.  11AM is early, but people should still be able to make the game
- especially students who are so close and now get in free (and have a
free tailgate before the game).  Students at NU tend not to go to
games because they don't really care that much about football or
school spirit - most attend NU because it is a very good school and
they care about their academics, even though the overall collegiate
experience is something everyone needs.  This was my 5th year in NUMB,
and we are there at 7AM for 11AM games week after week - but I have
many friends who just don't care enough to get up and go up to the
stadium.

For non-student attendance, I think that ticket prices should be
decreased (the only people who routinely go now are either
students/faculty/staff, alumni, long-time fans, or parents/relatives
of those associated with NU) in order to attract casual fans, and more
effective marketing should take place.  As noted previously, even in
the dark ages of NU football, attendance was much higher - due to a
solid fan base.  There are more options (professional teams) now, but
more effective advertising and promotions could fill some more stands.

Jonathan Hodges
Tech '05
NUMB 2000-2004

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:14:00 -0800, Cynthia Dueltgen <cdueltgen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't we still do Band Day?  We sure did it when I was an undergrad.
> But it only seemed to bring high school kids and not their parents.
> Add to that the 11am kickoff and the parents are probably glad to have
> the kids up and out of the house early on a Saturday.
> 
> I really think the 11am kickoff time has a lot to do with it.  It's
> really hard to drink those two free beers in wildcat alley and still
> be in the seats to see NUMB do pregame. :)  And I've usually flown in
> from California the night before, so it's even earlier for me.  The
> night games are fun, plenty of time to tailgate, but I'd be happy with
> us occasionally getting the 3:30ET kickoff for tv and not the noon.
> 
> Now when I'm at home watching on the game plan in the pacific time
> zone it works out well because I just stay in bed until halftime and
> then make breakfast.  No, wait, I still hate the early kickoff. :)
> 
> -Cynthia (season ticket holder even though I live 2000 miles away)
> 
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:10:07 -0500, Jeff Beamsley <jeffb@hilgraeve.com> wrote:
> > The new AD Don Canham re-invented the whole stadium experience and in
> > the process gave birth to the whole field of sports marketing.  Some of
> > his innovations include tail gating, branded  items, logo marketing, and
> > "personality" broadcasters.  One of the major reasons why the stadium
> > fills every home game today is that his legacy of event marketing.
> > During the dark days, he used to have a band day when he would invite HS
> > bands from across the state to come and play before, during, and after
> > the games.  He knew that for every kid in the band, there were two
> > parents in the stands.  He would invite enough HS bands to be assured of
> > a sellout for at least that game even if that meant twenty or more.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nwu-sports site list
> > nwu-sports@tssi.com
> > http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


-- 
Jonathan W. Hodges
President, Iota Chapter
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia
Northwestern University
jonathanwhodges@gmail.com

From CHerron604 at aol.com  Thu Dec  9 14:20:54 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec  9 14:24:52 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance ideas
Message-ID: <54E78245.00FFDF4B.0A143833@aol.com>

A couple of points.

Not sure how to raise this tactfully - but why is RW less of a media presence in a major market city like Chicago ?

Is there something about personalities ?  GB, the likeable rogue, drew well.  RW, the sober disciplinarian, draws not so well ?

GB was a Chicago media phenomenon - Chevy commercials, air time on TV and sports-talk radio, etc.  I recall the Chicago ABC affiliate had a season-long celebrity golf challenge, with Bears, White Sox, Cubs, Bulls - GB was featured here also.  And GB even had an eponymous restaurant/bar in downtown Evanston.

RW talks on WGN-radio to the morning-drive guy (probably a contractual thing), and I hear him sometimes on their 6-9pm sports block, but he is not really a presence on the other sports-talk radio outlets or on TV.  And it's probably a personality thing, but he doesn't have nearly the 'man-about-town' image (for good or bad) that GB had.

Also, I'll echo a lot of others - an 11:00 start time, combined with miserable Chicago traffic and chaotic parking can not be a boon to attendance.  As a 20-year season-ticket holder (box 230), with a pass to the West lot, I am amazed at how long it can take me to get from McCormick and Green Bay Road to the West lot and (eventually) my seat.  The ride in from Joliet isn't bad, til you reach the O'Hare area.  Then it really gets bad right around the stadium (Evanston police misdirecting traffic don't help).  Punching the parking passes is slow and about as low-tech as can be - send out a book of 6 parking coupons, and have us hand those over en-route to the lot entrance.  Finally, the hoops you have to jump through to get to your seats - gates closed, student-only gates, non-helpful ushers, people seated in the wrong seats, etc.

All of that said, I imagine I'll be back next year for more...

Chuck Herron   Tech '85

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Thu Dec  9 14:37:09 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Thu Dec  9 14:42:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendence ideas
In-Reply-To: <2268a9e804120910141fbc627d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41B878DF.7070100@hilgraeve.com>
	<2268a9e804120910141fbc627d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41B8B775.9040305@hilgraeve.com>

There must be someone in the central time zone that regularly fills 
their stadium and overcomes the 11:00 AM kickoffs.  What are they doing 
that we aren't?

Of course the other solution is to get good enough so that you get the 
late game tv slot rather than the early one.

Jeff


Cynthia Dueltgen wrote:

>Don't we still do Band Day?  We sure did it when I was an undergrad. 
>But it only seemed to bring high school kids and not their parents. 
>Add to that the 11am kickoff and the parents are probably glad to have
>the kids up and out of the house early on a Saturday.
>
>I really think the 11am kickoff time has a lot to do with it.  It's
>really hard to drink those two free beers in wildcat alley and still
>be in the seats to see NUMB do pregame. :)  And I've usually flown in
>from California the night before, so it's even earlier for me.  The
>night games are fun, plenty of time to tailgate, but I'd be happy with
>us occasionally getting the 3:30ET kickoff for tv and not the noon.
>
>Now when I'm at home watching on the game plan in the pacific time
>zone it works out well because I just stay in bed until halftime and
>then make breakfast.  No, wait, I still hate the early kickoff. :)
>
>-Cynthia (season ticket holder even though I live 2000 miles away)
>
>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:10:07 -0500, Jeff Beamsley <jeffb@hilgraeve.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>The new AD Don Canham re-invented the whole stadium experience and in
>>the process gave birth to the whole field of sports marketing.  Some of
>>his innovations include tail gating, branded  items, logo marketing, and
>>"personality" broadcasters.  One of the major reasons why the stadium
>>fills every home game today is that his legacy of event marketing.
>>During the dark days, he used to have a band day when he would invite HS
>>bands from across the state to come and play before, during, and after
>>the games.  He knew that for every kid in the band, there were two
>>parents in the stands.  He would invite enough HS bands to be assured of
>>a sellout for at least that game even if that meant twenty or more.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nwu-sports site list
>>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec  9 17:17:22 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec  9 17:22:39 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Attendance ideas
In-Reply-To: <54E78245.00FFDF4B.0A143833@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00dd01c4de45$3d410ec0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Chuck, I think you need to make an appointment with Dr. Murphy and talk about
your frustrations on the traffic and usher issue - you seem to have it nailed.

RW does do the WGN thing, and the Kaplan thing at night. But he doesn't do
anything much with WSCR [the Moronetty issue?] altho they are the Ill-noise [to
quote Zook] station.

If I lived in Evanston, I'd offer to produce a TV show for the cable, but its
hard to do that from where I live right now, unless I got southwest to sponsor
it in exchange for free flights.

It wouldn't be hard, get Eanet [or maybe Albrecht] to host and tape it on
Wednesday or Thursday. I'd almost try to do it 2 camera from Wolfgang Pucks' or
Tommy Nevins. Use a similar format to the Basketball Cat Chats.

Of course they'd have to give Coach Roy media credentials <g>

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of CHerron604@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:21 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Attendance ideas
> 
> 
> A couple of points.
> 
> Not sure how to raise this tactfully - but why is RW less of 
> a media presence in a major market city like Chicago ?
> 
> Is there something about personalities ?  GB, the likeable 
> rogue, drew well.  RW, the sober disciplinarian, draws not so well ?
> 
> GB was a Chicago media phenomenon - Chevy commercials, air 
> time on TV and sports-talk radio, etc.  I recall the Chicago 
> ABC affiliate had a season-long celebrity golf challenge, 
> with Bears, White Sox, Cubs, Bulls - GB was featured here 
> also.  And GB even had an eponymous restaurant/bar in 
> downtown Evanston.
> 
> RW talks on WGN-radio to the morning-drive guy (probably a 
> contractual thing), and I hear him sometimes on their 6-9pm 
> sports block, but he is not really a presence on the other 
> sports-talk radio outlets or on TV.  And it's probably a 
> personality thing, but he doesn't have nearly the 
> 'man-about-town' image (for good or bad) that GB had.
> 
> Also, I'll echo a lot of others - an 11:00 start time, 
> combined with miserable Chicago traffic and chaotic parking 
> can not be a boon to attendance.  As a 20-year season-ticket 
> holder (box 230), with a pass to the West lot, I am amazed at 
> how long it can take me to get from McCormick and Green Bay 
> Road to the West lot and (eventually) my seat.  The ride in 
> from Joliet isn't bad, til you reach the O'Hare area.  Then 
> it really gets bad right around the stadium (Evanston police 
> misdirecting traffic don't help).  Punching the parking 
> passes is slow and about as low-tech as can be - send out a 
> book of 6 parking coupons, and have us hand those over 
> en-route to the lot entrance.  Finally, the hoops you have to 
> jump through to get to your seats - gates closed, 
> student-only gates, non-helpful ushers, people seated in the 
> wrong seats, etc.
> 
> All of that said, I imagine I'll be back next year for more...
> 
> Chuck Herron   Tech '85
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From thehaze at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  9 18:55:34 2004
From: thehaze at earthlink.net (Jim Bendat)
Date: Thu Dec  9 18:59:27 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 9 am, er -- ll am games
Message-ID: <16829780.1102640135298.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

As a west coaster, I must state that I love Saturday mornings in the fall, rolling out of bed, turning on the computer, going on the internet to wgnradio.com, listening to the pregame show at 8:30 am, then watching our games at 9 am.  I'm sure there are plenty of alumni and fans who feel the same way.

All of those 11 am Central games were televised, and having so many games on the tube can only help recruiting.  If we were to tell the Big Ten that we no longer wish to have our home games televised at that hour, well ... ESPN Broadband, whatever that is, here we come.  A number of Big Ten games involving Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin were shown on that so-called network -- which most people cannot receive.  

I traveled to Evanston this year for the Purdue game.  It started at 11 am.  So what?!  I was fired up for the game, no matter what time it was going to be played.  If our team is playing well, the fans will come.  And let's not forget -- most of our games in 1995 and 1996 also started at 11 am.  

Jim B.

From mlinhardt at netzero.com  Thu Dec  9 20:50:07 2004
From: mlinhardt at netzero.com (mlinhardt@netzero.com)
Date: Thu Dec  9 20:52:45 2004
Subject: Fw: RE: [NU Sports] Attendance ideas
Message-ID: <20041209.185021.5923.159130@webmail29.nyc.untd.com>


I sent email to Taylor about the traffic issues and his response was NU and Evanston were doing everything in their power to make it better.

Bullshoot!  Everytime I go to Michigan(3 bad games) I am amazed that they can get 111K people in and much, much easier than 28K.

Traffic Ideas:
You should not be able to get on Central Street from Green Bay or Ridge without a parking pass.

OR 

Use the north most lane as a season parking pass only lane.  If you have west parking you must come from the west and if you have east parking you must come from the east.  These lanes do not stop at all.  All side streets are blocked off.

OR

Some variation of the above.


RSL writes...
Chuck, I think you need to make an appointment with Dr. Murphy and talk about
your frustrations on the traffic and usher issue - you seem to have it nailed.


________________________________________________________________
NetZero Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.netzero.com/give

From bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 10 03:34:13 2004
From: bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Fri Dec 10 03:35:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] R.C.
In-Reply-To: <200412091934.iB9JXxQb025217@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <20041210093413.56187.qmail@web51310.mail.yahoo.com>

The reason R.C. Lagomarsino won't make his official
visit Saturday is pretty simple: his team, Lansdale
Catholic, is playing for the Pennsylvania
Interscholastic Athletic Association Class AA state
championship in Hershey, Pa., Saturday at noon.

He enters the game with 2,148 yards and 27 TDs rushing
for the 13-1 Crusaders.

Brad Wilson

=====
"Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 

"Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 10 06:10:26 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 10 06:15:37 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] R.C.
In-Reply-To: <20041210093413.56187.qmail@web51310.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00ed01c4deb1$3c72f140$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Thanks Brad - the guys in Evanston can't tell us anything about the prospects,
and our spies missed this one.

He does still have us listed as first on his list

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wilson
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:34 AM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] R.C.
> 
> 
> The reason R.C. Lagomarsino won't make his official
> visit Saturday is pretty simple: his team, Lansdale
> Catholic, is playing for the Pennsylvania
> Interscholastic Athletic Association Class AA state 
> championship in Hershey, Pa., Saturday at noon.
> 
> He enters the game with 2,148 yards and 27 TDs rushing
> for the 13-1 Crusaders.
> 
> Brad Wilson
> 
> =====
> "Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 
> 
> "Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 10 08:44:38 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 10 08:49:50 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/10
Message-ID: <00f101c4dec6$c7e1a040$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Friday Edition **

Finals are winding down - Women's Basketball and Fencing are the next in action
for the Wildcats. Lots of Football commentary, and Recruiting prospect updates.
Wrestling gets ready for the Midlands 
Tournament, and some more Miscellany too...


                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Big Ten Men's Basketball Tournament Tickets On Sale
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120904aac.html 
     + 2005 Big Ten Men's Basketball Tournament Tickets on Sale Beginning
December 11
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120904aab.html 

Commentary:

     Fire Whom??? Redux
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/328889.html 

Next up: DePaul:

     De Paul [12/15
     DePaul Visits Notre Dame Saturday
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1945 

Looking Ahead:

     Seton Hall [12/18]
     Orr bemoans an errant alley-oops
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1102573449252550.xml


     Arizona State [12/20]
     Next game is with UC Riverside


     Robert Morris [12/22]
     No game until Saturday

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Next game is with MSU

     Texas-Pan American 12/31]
     UTPA BroncBusters - Matt Berry
 
http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/110404aaa.html 

Other Big 10:

     Illini roll on, but Williams stays in funk
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041209illinigamer,1,84
0743.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Augustine, Ingram produce what Weber wants
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041209illinibits,1,461
5370.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Worthy Illini
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38331153 
     + Roger Powell Provides Another Strong Effort for the Fighting Illini
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=1760 

     Ohio State won't compete in postseason
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cage10.html 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Suzanne Morrison Drops 21 Points to Earn All-Tournament Team Honors
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=1631 

     Next game is Sunday at Wisconsin-Milwaukee
     Preview: UW women vs. UWM
      http://www.jsonline.com/sports/coll/dec04/282033.asp 
     + UWM women keep pushing for victory
      http://www.jsonline.com/sports/coll/dec04/281531.asp 

     All-Session Tickets for Big Ten Women's Basketball Tournament on Sale
Saturday
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/120904aaa.html 

FOOTBALL

Commentary:

     Bobak: The Malcontent
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/gb120804.html 
     Tormey: Three & Out
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/ft120804.html 
     Imrem: Guidance for new coach at 'Illinoise'
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imrem.asp?intid=38329211 

     Moneypenny: Down with the BCS
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3230732 
     Mandel: The good -- and the bad -- of the BCS
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/stewart_mandel/12/05/bcs.review/in
dex.html 

Big 10



RECRUITING

     Andrew Brewer Oklahoma QB Names a Leader
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=328482 
     + Jenks QB names a leader
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328487&nid=1168610&fhn=1 
     Justin Thomas In-house with Justin Thornton
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=328841 
     Rick Albreski Reschedules MAC Visit
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=328527&nid=1549017&fhn=1 

     R.C. Lagomarsino: Pregame Stories
     + Homa heading Back
 
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13530770&BRD=2275&PAG=461&dept_id=4664
03&rfi=6 
     + Title dreams are on their minds
      http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/high_school/10381152.htm 
     + Focusing on the crown
      http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/10363092.htm 
     + Jim Henry Award Nominee
      http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/239-11252004-406585.html 
     Ferentz, Iowa could land top-15 class
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cruit10.html 

     Recruiting hits and misses
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=feldman_bruce&id=1942440 

FENCING

     Wildcats Travel to Virginia for USFA North American Cup
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-fenc/spec-rel/120904aaa.html 

Wrestling

     2004 Midlands Championships Notables
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/120904aah.html 

Miscellany

     Fan control an issue in college game, too
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nation10.html 

     Mariotti: Coaches snub Irish for good reasons
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay10.html 

Alumni

[Thanks Termy for finding and pointing out to me the Comcast Sports Net site]

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Fri Dec 10 12:49:23 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Fri Dec 10 12:58:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] PIGSKIN PICKS - Standings
Message-ID: <l03130300bddf88bc195d@[66.170.162.7]>

Sorry to keep y'all in suspense. The bowl pool should be online by the end
of the weekend. So there'll be one last chance for everyone to get into the
hall of fame.

A full list of this year's inductees and an updated Hall of Fame is at the
end of the standings ... but first, a congratulations to Marilyn Zilka for
emerging victorious in a Cardiac Cats-like finish for this year's Matt
Hartl Award for overall picks champion.  Also, she did it with the second
highest percentage in Pigskin Picks history.

Chuck was attempting to become the first three-time champ in picks history
and was deadlocked with Marilyn heading into the final week. Both missed
our one upset special of the week (Va Tech over Miami) ... and Chuck
dropped Thursday night's MAC title game, picking Miami. Which meant that
the title came down to the late game in Hawaii for a tie or a solo champ.
Those darn Hawaii refs!:)

But it was a great race this season ... Chuck was an early leader, but
these two have been pretty much deadlocked since the end of October.
Congrats to both players on a fine season and hope to see everyone back
here (and more) for the bowl pool and year NINE next fall. Thanks! To the
big board one last time ...

If you have any questions on the list below, e-mail me.

KEY: US = Upset Special picks  ///  WP = Weeks played
                                                    -- US --
LW TW  Name                  Wk 14  Overall  Pct.   TW  Ovrl WP
###############################################################
 1  1) Marilyn Zilka          9-1   129-36   .782    0    3  14
 1  2) Chuck Herron           7-3   127-38   .770    0    1  14
 3  3) Matt Barnard           8-2   126-39   .764    0    0  14
 5  4) John Labbe             8-2   108-37   .745    0    6  12
 4  5) Brad Wilson            7-3   122-43   .739    0    3  14
 6  6) Eric Steffe            8-2   121-44   .733    0    2  14
 9  7) Mark Ament             9-1   120-45   .727    1    6  14
 8  8) Roger Bradshaw         8-2   112-43   .723    1    3  13
 9  9) Trey McAdams           7-3   118-47   .715    0    6  14
 6  9) Bob Schooler           5-5   118-47   .715    0    4  14
11 11) Harlan Heiber          ---   100-40   .714    0    3  12
12 12) Alan Wolfson           7-3   117-48   .709    0    2  14
13 13) Ryan Farney            8-2   106-44   .707    0    0  13
17 14) Stephen Truog          9-1   115-50   .697    1    6  14
15 15) Ivars Embrekts         ---    97-43   .693    0    4  12
14 16) John Luken             6-4   114-51   .691    0    5  14
20 17) Sue O'Connor           9-1   113-52   .685    0    3  14
17 17) Kelly Sevilla          7-3   113-52   .685    0    6  14
16 19) Samuel Wolfson         5-5   112-53   .679    0    4  14
23 20) Brad May               8-2   111-54   .673    0    5  14
19 20) Jim Bendat             6-4   101-49   .673    1    7  13
22 22) Michael Whelan         ---    87-43   .669    0    2  11
20 23) Carl Rossi             6-4   100-50   .667    0   10  13
26 23) Chris Bailey          10-0    90-45   .667    1    2  12
25 25) Karen Capria           8-2   102-53   .658    1    6  13
24 26) Thomas Kettler         7-3   108-57   .655    1    5  14
28 27) John Lieske            8-2    88-52   .629    0    5  12
27 28) Ace McInturff          6-4   103-62   .624    0    9  14
29 29) Bob Waldele            8-2   101-64   .612    1    6  14
29 30) Jim Leonard            7-3    85-55   .607    1    8  12
31 31) Peg Wolfe              4-6    84-66   .560    0    7  13
32 32) Bill O'Connor          6-4    90-75   .545    0    5  14

Not eligible at this time (must be in 3/4 of the weeks)
-------------------------------------------------------
 x  x) Ty Levine              6-4    76-39   .661    0    3  10
 x  x) David Warner           ---    78-27   .743    -    2   9
 x  x) Joe Thiegs             ---    79-36   .687    -    4   9
 x  x) David Mikolajczak      ---    71-34   .676    -    3   9
 x  x) Phredd Groves          9-1    66-29   .695    1    7   8
 x  x) Brian Winkler          ---    57-33   .633    -    1   8
 x  x) Christopher Muzzo      ---    48-17   .738    -    0   5
 x  x) Andrew Hawkins         ---    11- 4   .733    -    0   1
 x  x) Chris Maresco          ---    11- 4   .733    -    0   1
 x  x) Scott Thomasson        ---    11- 4   .733    -    0   1
 x  x) Mike Mann              ---    10- 5   .667    -    1   1
 x  x) Kidcat Dan             ---     9- 6   .600    -    1   1

The top five finishers for each award this year before the Hall of Fame ...

ROB JOHNSON "IRONMAN" AWARD (best of those who have competed every week)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Marilyn Zilka         129-36
2) Chuck Herron          127-38
3) Matt Barnard          126-39
4) Brad Wilson           122-43
5) Eric Steffe           121-44

STEVE SCHNUR "ACCURACY" AWARD (best percentage - 5 week minimum)
----------------------------------------------------------------
1) Marilyn Zilka          78.2%
2) Chuck Herron           77.0%
3) Matt Barnard           76.4%
4) John Labbe             74.5%
5) David Warner           74.3%

PAT FITZGERALD "MOST HITS" AWARD (most correct picks overall)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1) Marilyn Zilka         129
2) Chuck Herron          127
3) Matt Barnard          126
4) Brad Wilson           122
5) Eric Steffe           121

BRIAN MUSSO "GUTS" AWARD (most upset special picks)
---------------------------------------------------
1) Carl Rossi            10
2) Ace McInturff          9
3) Jim Leonard            8
4) Jim Bendat             7
4) Phredd Groves          7
3) Peg Wolfe              7

######################################
##### PIGSKIN PICKS HALL OF FAME #####
######################################

MATT HARTL EXCELLENCE AWARD (Overall excellence - picks champion)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1997 - Eric J. Steffe
1998 - Carl Pilger
1999 - Eric J. Steffe
2000 - Bill Praast
2001 - Harlan Heiber
2002 - Chuck Herron
2003 - Chuck Herron
2004 - Marilyn Zilka

ROB JOHNSON IRONMAN AWARD (Best record of those who competed every week)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1997 - Eric J. Steffe                   (135-40)
1998 - Trey McAdams                     (120-40)
1999 - Bruce Taylor                     (111-39)
2000 - Steve Kandelman and Bruce Taylor (109-44)
2001 - Trey McAdams                     (107-43)
2002 - Chuck Herron                     (132-48)
2003 - Chuck Herron                     (130-40)
2004 - Marilyn Zilka                    (129-36)

STEVE SCHNUR ACCURACY AWARD (Highest percentage - 5 week minimum)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1997 - Eric J. Steffe                    (77.1%)
1998 - Carl Pilger                       (79.2%)
1999 - Eric J. Steffe                    (75.6%)
2000 - Bill Praast                       (71.4%)
2001 - Harlan Heiber                     (74.4%)
2002 - Greg Kane                         (73.8%)
2003 - Chuck Herron                      (76.5%)
2004 - Marilyn Zilka                     (78.2%)

PAT FITZGERALD "MOST HITS" AWARD (Most correct picks overall)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1997 - NA
1998 - Trey McAdams                        (120)
1999 - Bruce Taylor                        (111)
2000 - Steve Kandelman and Bruce Taylor    (109)
2001 - Trey McAdams                        (107)
2002 - Chuck Herron                        (132)
2003 - Chuck Herron                        (130)
2004 - Marilyn Zilka                       (129)

BRIAN MUSSO "GUTSY CALL" AWARD (Most upset special picks)
---------------------------------------------------------
1997 - NA
1998 - Kelly Sevilla                        (10)
1999 - Jim Bendat                           (12)
2000 - Jim Bendat and Kelly Sevilla         (13)
2001 - Jim Bendat                           (15)
2002 - Jim Bendat                           (18)
2003 - Bill O'Connor                        (14)
2004 - Carl Rossi                           (10)

D'WAYNE BATES "BOWL MVP" AWARD (Best performance in the postseason bowl pool)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1997 - Mark Loach                         (20-1)
1998 - Jeff Larson                        (18-4)
1999 - Roger Bradshaw                     (15-8)
2000 - Carl Rossi                         (18-6)
2001 - Kenn Ruby                          (19-6)
2002 - Ty Levine                          (18-10)
2003 - Ryan Farney                        (19-8)
2004 - TBA - enter the BOWL POOL ... coming this weekend

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Sun Dec 12 01:09:29 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Sun Dec 12 01:36:47 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] PIGSKIN PICKS - Bowl Pool
Message-ID: <l03130302bde19bf3a14e@[66.170.160.92]>

Well ... the regular season is over, but everyone's eligible for the bowl
pool here at the Pigskin Picks! The regular season is over and we're all at
0-0 again, so it's one last chance this year to etch your name in the hall
of fame.

The rules are simple - pick winners. Most correct picks wins. The
tiebreaker is the total points scored in the semi-National Title Game, the
Orange Bowl. Since there's not much time before the New Orleans Bowl and
it's a week before anything else, we'll skip that one and pick starting
with the Champps Sports Bowl in Orlando on Dec. 21. Therefore ...

ALL PICKS ARE DUE BY NOON ON DEC. 21, 2004. The entry form is also online
at www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog -- just follow the Pigskin Picks link. Any
questions, e-mail me.

PIGSKIN PICKS - BOWL POOL
#########################
Name:

CHAMPS BOWL: Georgia Tech vs. Syracuse         WINNER:

GMAC BOWL: Bowling Green vs. Memphis           WINNER:

FORT WORTH BOWL: Cincinnati vs. Marshall       WINNER:

VEGAS BOWL: UCLA vs. Wyoming                   WINNER:

HAWAII BOWL: UAB @ Hawaii                      WINNER:

MPC BOWL: Fresno State vs. Virginia            WINNER:

MOTOR CITY BOWL: Connecticut vs. Toledo        WINNER:

INDEPENDENCE BOWL: Iowa State vs. Miami (OH)   WINNER:

INSIGHT BOWL: Notre Dame vs. Oregon State      WINNER:

HOUSTON BOWL: Colorado vs. UTEP                WINNER:

ALAMO BOWL: Ohio State vs. Oklahoma St.        WINNER:

TIRE BOWL: Boston Coll. vs. North Carolina     WINNER:

EMERALD BOWL: Navy vs. New Mexico              WINNER:

HOLIDAY BOWL: California vs. Texas Tech        WINNER:

VALLEY BOWL: Northern Illinois vs. Troy        WINNER:

MUSIC CITY BOWL; Alabama vs. Minnesota         WINNER:

SUN BOWL: Arizona State vs. Purdue             WINNER:

LIBERTY BOWL: Boise State vs. Louisville       WINNER:

PEACH BOWL: Florida vs. Miami (FL)             WINNER:

OUTBACK BOWL: Georgia vs. Wisconsin            WINNER:

COTTON BOWL: Tennessee vs. Texas A&M           WINNER:

GATOR BOWL: Florida St. vs. West Virginia      WINNER:

CITRUS BOWL: Iowa vs. Louisiana State          WINNER:

ROSE BOWL: Michigan vs. Texas                  WINNER:

FIESTA BOWL: Pittsburgh vs. Utah               WINNER:

SUGAR BOWL: Auburn vs. Virginia Tech           WINNER:

ORANGE BOWL: Oklahoma vs. Southern Cal         WINNER:

TIEBREAK: Total points scored in Orange Bowl   ANSWER:

Remember - picks in by Dec. 21 at Noon.

GO CATS!!! And to a lesser extent ...
Go Wolverines! Go Hawkeyes! Go Badgers! Go Buckeyes! Go Boilers! Go Gophers!

- SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Mon Dec 13 13:50:03 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Mon Dec 13 13:53:49 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/13
Message-ID: <000901c4e14c$f38f10a0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Weekend Wrapup Edition **

Basketbal - WomenTake a Loss, Everyone else taking exams, but there's still news
from: Fencing, Wrestling, and a Soccer wrapup...
                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Northwestern Names Hilton Garden Inn Athlete of the Week

 http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/121304aaa.html 
Jessica Florendo

Men's BASKETBALL

     NU's New signee Craig Moore:
     Big Red advance
 
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-7/110275599674001.xml?times?vhs 
     Hun win over Big Red is Rizk-y business
 
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-7/110284245472881.xml?times?vhs 

Commentary:

     Nothing new

Next up: DePaul:

     De Paul [12/15
     Blue Demons Dispose of Fighting Irish
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1948 
     + Demons' win comes through loud, clear
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041211depaulgamer,1,57
65132.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Looking Ahead:

     Seton Hall [12/18]
     Whitney Carries Men's Basketball Past St. Peter's, 82-78
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2366 
     + Seton beats St. Peter's
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1102833074277730.xml

     + St. Peter's blows whistle on the officiating crew
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1102833082277730.xml


     Arizona State [12/20]
     Sun Devils On Roll With Victory Over UC Riverside 75-59
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121204aaa.html 
     + Krueger finding groove for ASU
      http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/1213asuhoops1213.html 


     Robert Morris [12/22]
     Men's Basketball Drops 79-69 Decision to Eastern Kentucky at the Sewall
Center
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60509&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7221&inws_seqno=6571&ihide_header=0 

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Taking Finals


     Texas-Pan American 12/31]
     Late Surge Not Enough in Broncs' Loss
      http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121104aaa.html 

Other Big 10:

     Illinois stays No. 1
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041213colillini,1,4555
09.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats Fall to UW-Milwaukee, 74-60
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/121204aab.html 
     + Wildcats Head to Milwaukee for Tilt With Panthers
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121004aaa.html 

     UWM 74, NU 60: Comfort zone
      http://www.jsonline.com/sports/coll/dec04/283661.asp 
     Panthers Host Northwestern In Home Opener
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/stories/121004aap.html 

     Northwestern Hosts UIC on Field Trip Day
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121304aaa.html 

     Next up is U of Illinois-Chicago
     Women's Basketball Falls At Central Michigan, 75-64
      http://uicflames.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/121204aab.html 
     + Prospectus
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/ilch/sports/w-baskbl/auto_pdf/WBKProspect
us.pdf 

RECRUITING

     Ryan Hamilton Pa. strong safety will play in SEC
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=329599&nid=1261740&fhn=1 
     Sean Carney Sean Carney commits to Green Wave
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=329620&nid=1200305&fhn=1 

     None for us - and only one O-Lineman
     Top 10 undecided prospects
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/ncaa/12/07/recruiting.watch/index
.html 

FENCING

     Wildcats Finish Strong at North American Cup
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-fenc/recaps/121304aab.html 

SOCCER

     Season Recap: Northwestern Men's Soccer's First Great Team
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/spec-rel/121304aad.html 

Wrestling

     2004 Midlands Championships Notables
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/120904aah.html 
     + Ticket Info/Directions
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/midlands-info
0304.pdf 
     + Weight Class Preview
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/weight_class_
preview_113004.pdf 

Miscellany

     And the Merry-Go-Round goes round and round...
     Weis signs 6-year contract to coach Irish
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041212irish,1,3238915.
story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Irish anoint Weis as coach
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041211irishcoach,1,748
717.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Good grief, Charlie even has New England's blessing to go
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-041211downeysub,1,2
671231.column?coll=cs-college-utility 
     + Weis pumps up ND players
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ndside13.html 
     + Power behind Irish
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041211irishbooster,1,5
188026.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Washington Huskies hire Willingham
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041212collegewillingha
m,1,3921006.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     Pitt's Harris gets Stanford coaching job
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3240138 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
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 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
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The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
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http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec 14 09:41:10 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec 14 09:44:34 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/14
Message-ID: <001901c4e1f3$57aec2f0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List


**  Tuesday-Christmas Break Starts Edition **

Women's Basketball has a rare weekday noon game today, other Basketball stuff
too, more Soccer info, and some Miscellany too



                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Its Back - The Basketball Recruit Recap
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/330459.html 

Commentary:

     Early wins good sign for Big Ten
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041213insidebigten,1,1
457037.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Next up: DePaul:

     De Paul [12/15]
     Quemont Greer Named Conference USA Player of the Week for Second
Consecutive Week
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1950 


Looking Ahead:

     Seton Hall [12/18]
     Pirates' Plank Blog
      http://www.nj.com/weblogs/setonhall/ 

     Arizona State [12/20]
     They're off for finals until our game
     Devils Down Highlanders
      http://arizonastate.scout.com/2/329742.html 

     Robert Morris [12/22] 

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Team is off until this Saturday when they play MSU

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]
     Next game is Thursday


Other Big 10:

      Illini still like view from atop rankings
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041213colillini,1,4555
09.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Northwestern Hosts UIC on Field Trip Day
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121304aaa.html 

FOOTBALL

     Commentary:
     Critic's corner: Zook picked wrong spot
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041213illinirowcorner,
1,7832467.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

RECRUITING

     Bruce Hampton Opens things back up
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330128&nid=1164499&fhn=1 
     Malcom Arrington If Stanford were a little closer
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330162&nid=1430928&fhn=1 
     Kurt Mattes Hitting His Stride
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330182&nid=1177933&fhn=1 
     Ramon Diaz: A shot of him playing Roundball...
      http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16 

     Craig Moore: All Tournament Team in the Peddie Invitational
 
http://www.lawrenceville.org/on_campus/athletics/team/team_detail.asp?team=NT000
0BC5E 

SOCCER

     Tim Lenahan Named NSCAA Great Lakes Region Coach of the Year
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/spec-rel/121304aag.html 
     + Pair of Wildcats Net NSCAA All-Region Honors
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/spec-rel/121304aai.html 

Wrestling

     The Midlands Championships
     Ticket Info/Directions
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/midlands-info
0304.pdf 
     + Schedule for Competitors
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/2004-Midlands
-skedcompetitors.pdf 
     + Weight Class Preview
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/weight_class_
preview_113004.pdf 

Miscellany

     Minnesota in the dumper...
     Big Ten athletic grad rates - dead last
      http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/index.asp?story_id=42099 
     + U of M lowest in Big Ten for athlete, non-athlete grad rates
      http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/state/10395503.htm 

Alumni

     Iowa President is an NU Alum
     David Skorton tops area list of most influential
 
http://www.dailyiowan.com/news/2004/12/14/Metro/Skorton.Tops.Area.List.Of.Most.I
nfluential-828792.shtml 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
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Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
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* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
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* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Tue Dec 14 10:53:50 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Tue Dec 14 10:59:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
Message-ID: <41BF1A9E.1050904@hilgraeve.com>

There is a lot of press today saying how bad Minny's athletic situation 
is because they are last in the BT in athletic graduation rate (58%), 
but that is six points BETTER than the graduation rate for the whole 
institution (52%).  Now this isn't something to brag about, but in 
general the athletic department is doing a better job than the 
institution in graduating people.

In comparison, Northwestern graduated 87% of it's athletes (on average), 
but the institution graduated 92%.  So the athletic department did five 
points WORSE than the whole institution.  When you dig into the numbers, 
it was the basketball team that appeared to have some problems (did our 
euro imports graduate?). 

Seems to me that you shouldn't hold an any athletic department to a 
higher standard than the whole institution and you should celebrate 
those athletic departments that do a better job than the institution 
itself.   Those athletic departments with positive numbers are 
demonstrating their commitment to education. 

If you reorg the list based on difference between the athletic 
department and the institutional graduation rates it looks a little 
different.

Minny +6
Purdue +6
OSU +5
Iowa +5
PSU -1
MSU -2
NU - 5
Indiana -5
Wisky -5
Illinois -9
UoM -10

Jeff

From lvaccher at comcast.net  Tue Dec 14 11:24:08 2004
From: lvaccher at comcast.net (Louie Vaccher)
Date: Tue Dec 14 11:24:55 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
References: <41BF1A9E.1050904@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c4e201$b8116950$09ff0f18@Louie>

You bring up a good point but I think those numbers may be a little
misleading.

If I'm not mistaken, Minnesota is a large, public school with a lot of
commuting and part-time students, and students that spend a short time there
and then move on. So, I'm guessing that their student body graduation rate
is falsely low, and it would be much higher for students that stay four or
five years.

A better comparison would be to measure the graduation rate of all students
who stay at Minny for four or five years against the student-athletes that
stay four or five years. I'll bet that the graduation rate for athletes
(which would probably be pretty close to that 58% number) would be lower
than the student body's as a whole in that case.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Beamsley" <jeffb@hilgraeve.com>
To: "NU Sports list" <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern


> There is a lot of press today saying how bad Minny's athletic situation
> is because they are last in the BT in athletic graduation rate (58%),
> but that is six points BETTER than the graduation rate for the whole
> institution (52%).  Now this isn't something to brag about, but in
> general the athletic department is doing a better job than the
> institution in graduating people.
>
> In comparison, Northwestern graduated 87% of it's athletes (on average),
> but the institution graduated 92%.  So the athletic department did five
> points WORSE than the whole institution.  When you dig into the numbers,
> it was the basketball team that appeared to have some problems (did our
> euro imports graduate?).
>
> Seems to me that you shouldn't hold an any athletic department to a
> higher standard than the whole institution and you should celebrate
> those athletic departments that do a better job than the institution
> itself.   Those athletic departments with positive numbers are
> demonstrating their commitment to education.
>
> If you reorg the list based on difference between the athletic
> department and the institutional graduation rates it looks a little
> different.
>
> Minny +6
> Purdue +6
> OSU +5
> Iowa +5
> PSU -1
> MSU -2
> NU - 5
> Indiana -5
> Wisky -5
> Illinois -9
> UoM -10
>
> Jeff
>
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From jeffb at hilgraeve.com  Tue Dec 14 11:38:16 2004
From: jeffb at hilgraeve.com (Jeff Beamsley)
Date: Tue Dec 14 11:43:31 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <007c01c4e201$b8116950$09ff0f18@Louie>
References: <41BF1A9E.1050904@hilgraeve.com>
	<007c01c4e201$b8116950$09ff0f18@Louie>
Message-ID: <41BF2508.2060004@hilgraeve.com>

Don't know how the NCAA comes up with it's institutional numbers and 
that's always the challenge in any statistical analysis.

BUT

The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate is 
LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's athletic 
graduation rate is higher. 

This is an NU list after all. <g>

Jeff


Louie Vaccher wrote:

>You bring up a good point but I think those numbers may be a little
>misleading.
>
>If I'm not mistaken, Minnesota is a large, public school with a lot of
>commuting and part-time students, and students that spend a short time there
>and then move on. So, I'm guessing that their student body graduation rate
>is falsely low, and it would be much higher for students that stay four or
>five years.
>
>A better comparison would be to measure the graduation rate of all students
>who stay at Minny for four or five years against the student-athletes that
>stay four or five years. I'll bet that the graduation rate for athletes
>(which would probably be pretty close to that 58% number) would be lower
>than the student body's as a whole in that case.
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Jeff Beamsley" <jeffb@hilgraeve.com>
>To: "NU Sports list" <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:53 AM
>Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
>
>
>  
>
>>There is a lot of press today saying how bad Minny's athletic situation
>>is because they are last in the BT in athletic graduation rate (58%),
>>but that is six points BETTER than the graduation rate for the whole
>>institution (52%).  Now this isn't something to brag about, but in
>>general the athletic department is doing a better job than the
>>institution in graduating people.
>>
>>In comparison, Northwestern graduated 87% of it's athletes (on average),
>>but the institution graduated 92%.  So the athletic department did five
>>points WORSE than the whole institution.  When you dig into the numbers,
>>it was the basketball team that appeared to have some problems (did our
>>euro imports graduate?).
>>
>>Seems to me that you shouldn't hold an any athletic department to a
>>higher standard than the whole institution and you should celebrate
>>those athletic departments that do a better job than the institution
>>itself.   Those athletic departments with positive numbers are
>>demonstrating their commitment to education.
>>
>>If you reorg the list based on difference between the athletic
>>department and the institutional graduation rates it looks a little
>>different.
>>
>>Minny +6
>>Purdue +6
>>OSU +5
>>Iowa +5
>>PSU -1
>>MSU -2
>>NU - 5
>>Indiana -5
>>Wisky -5
>>Illinois -9
>>UoM -10
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nwu-sports site list
>>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


From jonathanwhodges at gmail.com  Tue Dec 14 12:09:57 2004
From: jonathanwhodges at gmail.com (Jonathan Hodges)
Date: Tue Dec 14 12:11:09 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <41BF2508.2060004@hilgraeve.com>
References: <41BF1A9E.1050904@hilgraeve.com>
	<007c01c4e201$b8116950$09ff0f18@Louie>
	<41BF2508.2060004@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <fcb3ee270412141009505972d0@mail.gmail.com>

The NCAA graduation rates are reported as the number of students who
graduate within 6 years of entering the institution.  Due to this 6
year time span, the most recent statistics are from the period ending
in 1999 (since all current athletes still have their own 6 year window
to graduate).  All transfers out of the institution (i.e. NU
basketball in the late 90's) count against the institution - hence why
the NU graduation rate for Men's BB is so low.  The current slew of
players are on pace to graduate, so that number should improve as
years pass on.

Some reform of the way these numbers are calculated should be made,
since transfers out of your institution should not count against your
institution.

Jonathan


On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:38:16 -0500, Jeff Beamsley <jeffb@hilgraeve.com> wrote:
> Don't know how the NCAA comes up with it's institutional numbers and
> that's always the challenge in any statistical analysis.
> 
> BUT
> 
> The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate is
> LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's athletic
> graduation rate is higher.
> 
> This is an NU list after all. <g>
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Louie Vaccher wrote:
> 
> >You bring up a good point but I think those numbers may be a little
> >misleading.
> >
> >If I'm not mistaken, Minnesota is a large, public school with a lot of
> >commuting and part-time students, and students that spend a short time there
> >and then move on. So, I'm guessing that their student body graduation rate
> >is falsely low, and it would be much higher for students that stay four or
> >five years.
> >
> >A better comparison would be to measure the graduation rate of all students
> >who stay at Minny for four or five years against the student-athletes that
> >stay four or five years. I'll bet that the graduation rate for athletes
> >(which would probably be pretty close to that 58% number) would be lower
> >than the student body's as a whole in that case.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jeff Beamsley" <jeffb@hilgraeve.com>
> >To: "NU Sports list" <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:53 AM
> >Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>There is a lot of press today saying how bad Minny's athletic situation
> >>is because they are last in the BT in athletic graduation rate (58%),
> >>but that is six points BETTER than the graduation rate for the whole
> >>institution (52%).  Now this isn't something to brag about, but in
> >>general the athletic department is doing a better job than the
> >>institution in graduating people.
> >>
> >>In comparison, Northwestern graduated 87% of it's athletes (on average),
> >>but the institution graduated 92%.  So the athletic department did five
> >>points WORSE than the whole institution.  When you dig into the numbers,
> >>it was the basketball team that appeared to have some problems (did our
> >>euro imports graduate?).
> >>
> >>Seems to me that you shouldn't hold an any athletic department to a
> >>higher standard than the whole institution and you should celebrate
> >>those athletic departments that do a better job than the institution
> >>itself.   Those athletic departments with positive numbers are
> >>demonstrating their commitment to education.
> >>
> >>If you reorg the list based on difference between the athletic
> >>department and the institutional graduation rates it looks a little
> >>different.
> >>
> >>Minny +6
> >>Purdue +6
> >>OSU +5
> >>Iowa +5
> >>PSU -1
> >>MSU -2
> >>NU - 5
> >>Indiana -5
> >>Wisky -5
> >>Illinois -9
> >>UoM -10
> >>
> >>Jeff
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>nwu-sports site list
> >>nwu-sports@tssi.com
> >>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


-- 
Jonathan W. Hodges
President, Iota Chapter
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia
Northwestern University
626 Emerson St. #34  Evanston, IL  60201-3810
(847) 736-2449
jonathanwhodges@gmail.com

From s.fridley at comcast.net  Tue Dec 14 12:14:25 2004
From: s.fridley at comcast.net (s.fridley@comcast.net)
Date: Tue Dec 14 12:15:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
Message-ID: <121420041814.6787.41BF2D810007649300001A832205886014970A040B079D00D29C@comcast.net>

With regard to the basketball team, remember that we had a slew of transfers associated with the transition from O'Neill to Carmody.  I would be concerned if we had a poor graduation rate among players who didn't transfer to another school.  But I can't remember the last NU player who didn't transfer but didn't graduate.

It appears the latest numbers are for students who entered in 97-98 (O'Neill's first season after the firing of Byrdsong).  Remember how many players left in 2000, 2001, 2002?

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> Don't know how the NCAA comes up with it's institutional numbers and 
> that's always the challenge in any statistical analysis. 
> 
> BUT 
> 
> The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate is 
> LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's athletic 
> graduation rate is higher. 
> 
> This is an NU list after all. 
> 
> Jeff 
> 
> 
> Louie Vaccher wrote: 
> 
> >You bring up a good point but I think those numbers may be a little 
> >misleading. 
> > 
> >If I'm not mistaken, Minnesota is a large, public school with a lot of 
> >commuting and part-time students, and students that spend a short time there 
> >and then move on. So, I'm guessing that their student body graduation rate 
> >is falsely low, and it would be much higher for students that stay four or 
> >five years. 
> > 
> >A better comparison would be to measure the graduation rate of all students 
> >who stay at Minny for four or five years against the student-athletes that 
> >stay four or five years. I'll bet that the graduation rate for athletes 
> >(which would probably be pretty close to that 58% number) would be lower 
> >than the student body's as a whole in that case. 
> > 
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Jeff Beamsley" 
> >To: "NU Sports list" 
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:53 AM 
> >Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>There is a lot of press today saying how bad Minny's athletic situation 
> >>is because they are last in the BT in athletic graduation rate (58%), 
> >>but that is six points BETTER than the graduation rate for the whole 
> >>institution (52%). Now this isn't something to brag about, but in 
> >>general the athletic department is doing a better job than the 
> >>institution in graduating people. 
> >> 
> >>In comparison, Northwestern graduated 87% of it's athletes (on average), 
> >>but the institution graduated 92%. So the athletic department did five 
> >>points WORSE than the whole institution. When you dig into the numbers, 
> >>it was the basketball team that appeared to have some problems (did our 
> >>euro imports graduate?). 
> >> 
> >>Seems to me that you shouldn't hold an any athletic department to a 
> >>higher standard than the whole institution and you should celebrate 
> >>those athletic departments that do a better job than the institution 
> >>itself. Those athletic departments with positive numbers are 
> >>demonstrating their commitment to education. 
> >> 
> >>If you reorg the list based on difference between the athletic 
> >>department and the institutional graduation rates it looks a little 
> >>different. 
> >> 
> >>Minny +6 
> >>Purdue +6 
> >>OSU +5 
> >>Iowa +5 
> >>PSU -1 
> >>MSU -2 
> >>NU - 5 
> >>Indiana -5 
> >>Wisky -5 
> >>Illinois -9 
> >>UoM -10 
> >> 
> >>Jeff 
> >> 
> >>_______________________________________________ 
> >>nwu-sports site list 
> >>nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> >>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> nwu-sports site list 
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
From e-west at northwestern.edu  Tue Dec 14 12:45:38 2004
From: e-west at northwestern.edu (Eric West)
Date: Tue Dec 14 12:45:40 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with
  Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <41BF2508.2060004@hilgraeve.com>
References: <41BF1A9E.1050904@hilgraeve.com>
	<007c01c4e201$b8116950$09ff0f18@Louie>
	<41BF2508.2060004@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20041214123011.0267f040@merle.it.northwestern.edu>

At 11:38 AM 12/14/2004, Jeff Beamsley wrote:

>The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate is 
>LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's athletic 
>graduation rate is higher.

Given the raw numbers, I wouldn't consider it a big issue. It's like that 
water treatment system in Alaska that was found to be below EPA standards; 
the system couldn't remove a high enough percentage of impurities because 
the water was so clean to begin with. (Their solution was to make the water 
*dirtier* so that the system could clean it up.) Basically, it's silly to 
worry about higher vs. lower in this case.

Regarding basketball: hard to say too much specifically without knowing 
exactly what year range they are talking about, but it hasn't been that 
long since the last coaching change/rash of transfers. We've also had at 
least one European leave to play professional ball back home. So it's not 
exactly an "oh dear, we're recruiting a bunch of dummies" kind of 
phenomenon, although it might speak about the nature of college basketball 
today.

Eric West
e-west@northwestern.edu 


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Tue Dec 14 12:54:12 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Tue Dec 14 12:54:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
	(fwd)
Message-ID: <200412141854.iBEIsCg8021745@romaine.tssi.com>

> The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate is 
> LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's athletic 
> graduation rate is higher. 

Not many journalism majors leave college early because they're drafted
by the Chicago Tribune?  How many physics majors drop out if they 
dislocate their calculus.  :-)

It takes a LOT of student-athletes to raise the graduation rate at Minny
more than a few points, it only takes ONE to blow a 100% rate at 
Northwestern.  
--
Mike Nolan

From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Tue Dec 14 12:55:33 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Tue Dec 14 12:55:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
	(fwd)
Message-ID: <200412141855.iBEItXxm021761@romaine.tssi.com>

> Some reform of the way these numbers are calculated should be made,
> since transfers out of your institution should not count against your
> institution.

I think that change is under consideration.  However, I think if they
transfer but still don't graduate, it stil counts as a non-graduate.
--
Mike Nolan

From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 14 13:05:11 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Tue Dec 14 13:06:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <41BF2508.2060004@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <20041214190511.91903.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com>

> The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate
> is  LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's
> athletic graduation rate is higher. 

Because NU's overall institutional graduation rate is very, very, very
high. It's an apples/oranges comparison as far as I'm concerned.

I would agree that the overall graduation rate of an institution is an
important piece of information in evaluating how well the school
supports (or exploits) its athletes. But you can't let that
consideration blind you to the significance of the absolute numbers. To
suggest that Minnesota is doing better by its student athletes than NU
based on this comparison would be silly, IMHO. 

By way of analogy, just because someone living in Kenilworth makes
signifcantly less per year than the average income for Kenilworth
residents does not mean that they are "poor".

Tom


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Tue Dec 14 13:37:38 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Tue Dec 14 13:45:00 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <121420041814.6787.41BF2D810007649300001A832205886014970A040B079D00D29
	C@comcast.net>
References: <121420041814.6787.41BF2D810007649300001A832205886014970A040B079D00D29C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <53739.66.170.160.72.1103053058.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

> It appears the latest numbers are for students who entered in 97-98
> (O'Neill's first season after the firing of Byrdsong).  Remember how many
> players left in 2000, 2001, 2002?

Exactly - those numbers might also reflect some of the departures around
the Barnett departure as well. I remember hearing that the most recent
group of NU football players had a 100% graduation rate -- can anyone
confirm that?

Every few years when these figures come out, NU seems to be in the low 90%
or high 80% group each time -- pretty much on pace with the school as a
whole, give or take a few transfers. It's a bit harder to hide -- or get
lost -- at a school as small as NU, and overall it appears that the school
does a good job of getting athletes and academic education as well.

I wouldn't have expected Minnesota to be around 50% overall in graduation
... but I'm sure the commuter school impact is there. Maybe they have a
lot of mormons who go on missions (that always makes Utah's rate look
bad)?:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

BTW - Not much talk of ND's hire here yet. Will Weis work in South Bend?

From cp2m at enterprisesw.com  Tue Dec 14 14:14:41 2004
From: cp2m at enterprisesw.com (Chris Patterson)
Date: Tue Dec 14 14:16:57 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 58% graduation rate
Message-ID: <01f601c4e219$93aced60$7000a8c0@Audubon.local>

I think a 58% grad rate is terrible regardless of what the parent
institution graduates.
 
If an athlete is being recruited for 4 or 5 years and stays that entire
time, then they should graduate. Period. BTW, don't most institutions have
fairly rigorous support programs for their athletes?
 
Chris
Knoxville, TN
Go CATS!
 
PS. It seems that student transfers seem to mess up the grad percentage and
should be excluded or there should be an extra column in the data to show
grad rate excluding transfers.
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec 14 14:17:50 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec 14 14:21:18 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <41BF1A9E.1050904@hilgraeve.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c4e219$fc5bf040$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

The Athletic Dept is still taking the hit for the 5 guys who transferred at the
beginning of the Carmody era.

While they all actually graduated from their new schools, they count as 5 kids
who did not graduate on time from NU.

The NCAA is changing those rules, but anyone who transfers out of NU is counted
as not graduating. 

We're still the top Big 10 School in terms of graduation, and we still have
close to 100% of our football players graduating.

The last I read on the graduation rules from the NCAA was that they are planning
to change the way its calculated in that transfer outs don't count against your
grad numbers if they go to another school. 

If they fail to graduate there, it counts against the new school's grad rate. 

If they drop out altogether, it counts against the first institution.

Under the present rules both Cote and Thompson count as non graduating players
for Kentucky and Duke, even though they will probably graduate early from NU.

Another dumb rule that should be changed

Go Cats

rsl
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Beamsley
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:54 AM
> To: NU Sports list
> Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with 
> Northwestern
> 
> 
> There is a lot of press today saying how bad Minny's athletic 
> situation 
> is because they are last in the BT in athletic graduation rate (58%), 
> but that is six points BETTER than the graduation rate for the whole 
> institution (52%).  Now this isn't something to brag about, but in 
> general the athletic department is doing a better job than the 
> institution in graduating people.
> 
> In comparison, Northwestern graduated 87% of it's athletes 
> (on average), 
> but the institution graduated 92%.  So the athletic 
> department did five 
> points WORSE than the whole institution.  When you dig into 
> the numbers, 
> it was the basketball team that appeared to have some 
> problems (did our 
> euro imports graduate?). 
> 
> Seems to me that you shouldn't hold an any athletic department to a 
> higher standard than the whole institution and you should celebrate 
> those athletic departments that do a better job than the institution 
> itself.   Those athletic departments with positive numbers are 
> demonstrating their commitment to education. 
> 
> If you reorg the list based on difference between the athletic 
> department and the institutional graduation rates it looks a little 
> different.
> 
> Minny +6
> Purdue +6
> OSU +5
> Iowa +5
> PSU -1
> MSU -2
> NU - 5
> Indiana -5
> Wisky -5
> Illinois -9
> UoM -10
> 
> Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From s.fridley at comcast.net  Tue Dec 14 14:34:36 2004
From: s.fridley at comcast.net (s.fridley@comcast.net)
Date: Tue Dec 14 14:35:27 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
Message-ID: <121420042034.8714.41BF4E5B000D55740000220A2205886014970A040B079D00D29C@comcast.net>

With the help of a friend, here's a off-the-top-of-the-head list of some of the "recent" transfers from the basketball team.

O'Neill recruits: 
Ben Johnson (under carmody's watch)
Ed McCants (under carmody's watch)
Harry Goode (under carmody's watch)
Casey Cortez (under carmody's watch)
Sean Wink (quit team...still may have graduated)
Aaron Molnar (quit team...still may have graduated)
Steve Lepore
David Newman
Brody Deren
Adam Robinson

These guys immediately come to mind...and O'Neill coached only three seasons!

Carmody has had only two of his own recruits quit or transfer to date:

Jimmy Maley
Thomas Soltau

With such a list of transfers and the small number of scholarships for a sport like basketball, it's no surprise that they can have a devastating impact on the team's play, and on its graduation rate.
-------------- Original message -------------- 

> At 11:38 AM 12/14/2004, Jeff Beamsley wrote: 
> 
> >The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's graduation rate is 
> >LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why Minny's athletic 
> >graduation rate is higher. 
> 
> Given the raw numbers, I wouldn't consider it a big issue. It's like that 
> water treatment system in Alaska that was found to be below EPA standards; 
> the system couldn't remove a high enough percentage of impurities because 
> the water was so clean to begin with. (Their solution was to make the water 
> *dirtier* so that the system could clean it up.) Basically, it's silly to 
> worry about higher vs. lower in this case. 
> 
> Regarding basketball: hard to say too much specifically without knowing 
> exactly what year range they are talking about, but it hasn't been that 
> long since the last coaching change/rash of transfers. We've also had at 
> least one European leave to play professional ball back home. So it's not 
> exactly an "oh dear, we're recruiting a bunch of dummies" kind of 
> phenomenon, although it might speak about the nature of college basketball 
> today. 
> 
> Eric West 
> e-west@northwestern.edu 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> nwu-sports site list 
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec 14 18:26:33 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec 14 18:29:56 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared with Northwestern
In-Reply-To: <121420042034.8714.41BF4E5B000D55740000220A2205886014970A040B079D00D29C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000301c4e23c$bb9c3bf0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

HOWEVER!

Johnson, Lepore, Newman, Deren and Robinson were all playing elsewhere and on a
track to graduate within the 5 years.

Wink, & Molnar I think stayed at NU and finished up.

Soltau is playing in the pros, and Maley was still at NU, the last I heard.

I remember that when the 5 guys all quit, I projected NU with a 25% basketball
grad rate because of all the kids O'Neil drove off, and the ones who didn't like
BC's style.

In any case, they're supposed to change the rules to take care of the transfer
issue.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of 
> s.fridley@comcast.net
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:35 PM
> To: NU Sports list
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Minny's graduation rate compared 
> with Northwestern
> 
> 
> With the help of a friend, here's a off-the-top-of-the-head 
> list of some of the "recent" transfers from the basketball team.
> 
> O'Neill recruits: 
> Ben Johnson (under carmody's watch)
> Ed McCants (under carmody's watch)
> Harry Goode (under carmody's watch)
> Casey Cortez (under carmody's watch)
> Sean Wink (quit team...still may have graduated)
> Aaron Molnar (quit team...still may have graduated)
> Steve Lepore
> David Newman
> Brody Deren
> Adam Robinson
> 
> These guys immediately come to mind...and O'Neill coached 
> only three seasons!
> 
> Carmody has had only two of his own recruits quit or transfer to date:
> 
> Jimmy Maley
> Thomas Soltau
> 
> With such a list of transfers and the small number of 
> scholarships for a sport like basketball, it's no surprise 
> that they can have a devastating impact on the team's play, 
> and on its graduation rate.
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> 
> > At 11:38 AM 12/14/2004, Jeff Beamsley wrote:
> > 
> > >The issue is just as much a question of why is NU's 
> graduation rate 
> > >is
> > >LOWER than the overall institutional rate as it is why 
> Minny's athletic 
> > >graduation rate is higher. 
> > 
> > Given the raw numbers, I wouldn't consider it a big issue. 
> It's like 
> > that
> > water treatment system in Alaska that was found to be below 
> EPA standards; 
> > the system couldn't remove a high enough percentage of 
> impurities because 
> > the water was so clean to begin with. (Their solution was 
> to make the water 
> > *dirtier* so that the system could clean it up.) Basically, 
> it's silly to 
> > worry about higher vs. lower in this case. 
> > 
> > Regarding basketball: hard to say too much specifically without 
> > knowing
> > exactly what year range they are talking about, but it 
> hasn't been that 
> > long since the last coaching change/rash of transfers. 
> We've also had at 
> > least one European leave to play professional ball back 
> home. So it's not 
> > exactly an "oh dear, we're recruiting a bunch of dummies" kind of 
> > phenomenon, although it might speak about the nature of 
> college basketball 
> > today. 
> > 
> > Eric West
> > e-west@northwestern.edu 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nwu-sports site list 
> > nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> > http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 15 04:54:52 2004
From: bwdolphin146 at yahoo.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Wed Dec 15 04:56:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
Message-ID: <20041215105452.62887.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com>

... Kevin O'Neill's hiring was the biggest single
disaster in NU's athletic department in years. A
foul-mouthed, overbearing creep, he was miserable in
every way. Going from him to Bill Carmody is a leap of
incalcuable porportions in class, conduct and, yes,
winning. 

Beat DePaul!!! Badly!!

Brad Wilson 

=====
"Life is more delectable/When it's disrespectable." -- Lorenz Hart 

"Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" -- Juvenal


		
__________________________________ 
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All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
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From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec 15 09:53:10 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec 15 09:56:32 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/15
Message-ID: <000e01c4e2be$2eb8e7b0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Wednesday Edition **

Its a new era in Men's Basketball with a new player tonight. The Women head out
for a weekend tournament too. Recruiting updates abound, along with news from
our future Cats. Women's Tennis has some 
future news, and the Wrestlers are out on the road. Finally, some good news from
our NFL Alumni...



                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     City Showdown Arrives, and So Does Thompson
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121404aaa.html

     Purple Reign Pregame Intel
     http://northwestern.Scout.com/2/331002.html


     Mike Thompson Bringing Duke grit to NU
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041214nu,1,2154565.sto
ry?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Thompson's long wait finally over
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu15.html 
     + Center of attention
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38336127 

     Hot time in the dorm...
     Fire damages athletes' apartment
 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/12/07/41b6629a14a0e 


     Talking Chi-town roundball rivalries...
     Top rivals on the court
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041214colrowlist,1,330
0076.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     NU Weekly Wrapup from USA Today
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/northwestern.htm 


Next up: DePaul:

     De Paul [12/15]
     DePaul back in groove behind Greer, Seals
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38336139 

     Blue Demons Travel To Northwestern on Wednesday
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1951 
     + Preview the Dec. 15th game...
      http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebillybluedemon/northwestern.htm 

Looking Ahead:

     Seton Hall [12/18]
     NU is their next game

     Arizona State [12/20]
     NU is also their next game

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     And the same with Robert Morris...

     Delaware State [12/27]


     Texas-Pan American [12/31]


Women's BASKETBALL

     Flames Douse Northwestern, 71-64
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/121404aad.html 
     + Resilient Flames brush off Wildcats' 21-2 run
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041214coluicwomen,1,56
90427.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Northwestern Hopes to Warm Up at Florida International
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121404aaa.html 

RECRUITING

     Rick Albreski Commits to MAC School
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330772&nid=1549017&fhn=1 
     + Chippewas Receive Huge Commitment
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=330766 
     Michael Smith RB headed to Arkansas
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330720&nid=1386498&fhn=1 
     Kurt Mattes Talks About Pittsburgh Trip
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330688&nid=1177933&fhn=1 
     + Big man leaves Oakland impressed
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=330711 

     Signees and Commits:
     Craig Moore: Its Back - The Basketball Recruit Recap
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/330459.html 
     Ramon Diaz: Going to bat for his coach
 
http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=58&ArticleID=
12443 

TENNIS

     Court Cats heading for USTA/ITA Indoor Championships
     USTA/ITA National Team Indoor Championship Fields Announced
      http://www.itatennis.com/ 

     A little historyt...
     Official page of the 2004 ITA National Indoor Championships
      http://www.itatennis.com/04IndoorBreak.htm 

WRESTLING

     Wildcats Hit the Road Twice in Three Days
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/121404aab.html 

Miscellany

     Could influence some prospects?
     Pitt's Harris gets Stanford coaching job
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3240138 

Alumni

     Austin King Signed to 53 man Roster
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330734&nid=1541544&fhn=1 

     Jason Wright Signed to 53 Man Roster
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=330732&nid=1541592&fhn=1 
     + Duckett out for surgery
      http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/1204/14duckett.html 
     + Falcons place Griffith on IR, shuffle roster on Tuesday
      http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/article.jsp?id=3635 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
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The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
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http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
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* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
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http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
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Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From NUMBalum78 at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 11:47:48 2004
From: NUMBalum78 at aol.com (NUMBalum78@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec 15 11:52:10 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NUMB "Hail to Purple" CD -- Online Ordering Available 
Message-ID: <8a.1c2eda53.2ef1d2c4@aol.com>

Dear NU Faithful: 

Still looking for that perfect Holiday gift?  What could possibly be more 
appropriate than giving a copy -- or three -- of "Hail to Purple," our new 
50-year retrospective CD of the Northwestern University "Wildcat" Marching Band!  

To make it even easier to order using your credit card, we've set up a NEW 
online ordering system via our Web site.  Just go to the following link for 
complete instructions for both online ordering as well as orders by mail: 

  http://www.numbalums.org/cd/

TO ASSURE ARRIVAL BY CHRISTMAS, ORDERS MUST BE RECEIVED BY FRIDAY, DECEMBER 
17.  

We've been getting consistent rave reviews from those who have purchased this 
CD.   The sound quality, the performances, and the accompanying 30-page 
booklet are all first rate.  

All proceeds from CD sales will be used for special projects in support of 
the NU Bands, so your order helps a MOST worthy cause!  

We hope you enjoy the CD, and BEST WISHES to you and yours for a great 
Holiday season from the NUMBALUMS Organization. 
From BSchooler at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 16:32:07 2004
From: BSchooler at aol.com (BSchooler@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec 15 16:33:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
Message-ID: <1e0.315459cb.2ef21567@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/15/2004 4:57:53 AM Central Standard Time, 
bwdolphin146@yahoo.com writes:

> ... Kevin O'Neill's hiring was the biggest single
> disaster in NU's athletic department in years. A
> foul-mouthed, overbearing creep, he was miserable in
> every way. 

Even worse, Tommy Amaker (sp?), a highly regarded Duke assistant at the time, 
was openly campaigning for the Northwestern job. Yes, there was some talk 
that he had rebuffed Northwestern years earlier, but he apparently felt he wasn't 
ready for a head coaching position at that time. But he did feel he was ready 
in 1997, but Rick Taylor, in all his stubborn stupidity, hired Kevin O'Neill 
instead.

Bob Schooler

Bob Schooler
From TyJLevine at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 20:36:37 2004
From: TyJLevine at aol.com (TyJLevine@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec 15 20:40:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005
Message-ID: <127.51981e8c.2ef24eb5@aol.com>

Should get lots of attention.
 
Ohio just hired former Nebraska HC  Frank  Solich.
From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Wed Dec 15 21:18:43 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Wed Dec 15 21:18:46 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412160318.iBG3IheS002540@romaine.tssi.com>

> Should get lots of attention.
>  
> Ohio just hired former Nebraska HC  Frank  Solich.

Yeah, the TV folks will make a big deal out of it.

Frank's from Ohio, he should be popular with the coaches out there, and
I think his style of football can do fairly well in the MAC.  Anybody know
how much talent there is in the system out there?
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec 15 22:03:38 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Wed Dec 15 22:08:49 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <200412160318.iBG3IheS002540@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <l03130303bde6b95d703e@[66.170.160.173]>

>> Should get lots of attention.
>> Ohio just hired former Nebraska HC  Frank  Solich.
>
>Yeah, the TV folks will make a big deal out of it.

Good - that was one that probably wouldn't get on TV in normal years --
perhaps this will get us an ESPN2 game. Now we better win ... that dag-gum
MAC!

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec 15 22:03:55 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Wed Dec 15 22:09:03 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU/DePaul ...
Message-ID: <l03130301bde6ab20174d@[66.170.160.173]>

BIG win for Carmody's Cats - we really needed this to kick start the season
after the slow start out of the gate.

As for Mike Thompson -- a lot of rough edges and first-game kinks, but man,
this team really looks promising with him in the lineup.

Our offense didn't look good -- we were really struggling to figure out how
to use MT (need some more cutting when he has the ball up high and more
inside/out when he's down low), but that will be worked out as they play
together more.

The biggest thing you could see was on defense -- especially that matchup
zone that just shut DePaul down in the stretch. With Thompson in the paint,
he altered shots, gave us some rebounding help and really stopped the
opponent ruling the paint as Virginia did.

As a player, he still looks like he's fitting in - but he was willing to
step up down the stretch and you gotta like SOMEONE on this team taking the
go-to role in clutch. He doesn't make stupid fouls -- and he makes the
hustle plays you love to see from a big man (he's already strong on the
pick-n-roll -- we need to use that more with Parker -- and was even diving
on the floor at times).

Plus now we have some semblance of a bench with DD, Seacat and Lee
available. With a couple more tough games before Christmas, it will be nice
to see this team get more comfortable with each other and hopefully hit
stride right as Big Ten play approaches.

And going back to our transfer discussion -- they mentioned it on ESPN on
how this is the anti-KO era with people transferring IN to NU to play for
Carmody. Yeah, we didn't get Amaker back then and the O'Neill era was
awful, but I couldn't be more happy than where we're at now -- Bill Carmody
is the perfect fit for the NU job and a class act. Plus, I don't think
Amaker's the type to stick around (he'll be gone from Michigan within 5
years) ... Carmody's not looking at Evanston as a stepping stone.

Not a great game - but a real promising start to the MT era and a
much-needed win over our crosstown rivals (who had just come off a big win
over ND ... Greer had a big game, but we really shut down Diener). Welcome
aboard, Mr. Thompson!

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From thehaze at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 15 22:49:39 2004
From: thehaze at earthlink.net (Jim Bendat)
Date: Wed Dec 15 22:53:37 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU/DePaul ...
References: <l03130301bde6ab20174d@[66.170.160.173]>
Message-ID: <41C113E3.4050202@earthlink.net>

It was really three separate games:

the beginning:  we were fired up, and jumped to a 13-5 lead at the start 
of the contest.

the middle (acually most of the game):  DePaul 42, NU 27  

the end:  we outscored 'em, 16-5 to finish the game with a flourish.

Jim B.      

SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:

>BIG win for Carmody's Cats - we really needed this to kick start the season
>after the slow start out of the gate.
>
>As for Mike Thompson -- a lot of rough edges and first-game kinks, but man,
>this team really looks promising with him in the lineup.
>
>Our offense didn't look good -- we were really struggling to figure out how
>to use MT (need some more cutting when he has the ball up high and more
>inside/out when he's down low), but that will be worked out as they play
>together more.
>
>The biggest thing you could see was on defense -- especially that matchup
>zone that just shut DePaul down in the stretch. With Thompson in the paint,
>he altered shots, gave us some rebounding help and really stopped the
>opponent ruling the paint as Virginia did.
>
>As a player, he still looks like he's fitting in - but he was willing to
>step up down the stretch and you gotta like SOMEONE on this team taking the
>go-to role in clutch. He doesn't make stupid fouls -- and he makes the
>hustle plays you love to see from a big man (he's already strong on the
>pick-n-roll -- we need to use that more with Parker -- and was even diving
>on the floor at times).
>
>Plus now we have some semblance of a bench with DD, Seacat and Lee
>available. With a couple more tough games before Christmas, it will be nice
>to see this team get more comfortable with each other and hopefully hit
>stride right as Big Ten play approaches.
>
>And going back to our transfer discussion -- they mentioned it on ESPN on
>how this is the anti-KO era with people transferring IN to NU to play for
>Carmody. Yeah, we didn't get Amaker back then and the O'Neill era was
>awful, but I couldn't be more happy than where we're at now -- Bill Carmody
>is the perfect fit for the NU job and a class act. Plus, I don't think
>Amaker's the type to stick around (he'll be gone from Michigan within 5
>years) ... Carmody's not looking at Evanston as a stepping stone.
>
>Not a great game - but a real promising start to the MT era and a
>much-needed win over our crosstown rivals (who had just come off a big win
>over ND ... Greer had a big game, but we really shut down Diener). Welcome
>aboard, Mr. Thompson!
>
>GO CATS!!!
>-SjT
>
>
>888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
>8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
>88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
>88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
>88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
>88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
>888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
>8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
>====================================================
>Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>
>  
>



From CHerron604 at aol.com  Thu Dec 16 08:27:55 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec 16 08:32:01 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
Message-ID: <16B858B5.664A4032.0A143833@aol.com>

We have been debating the proposition:

> ... Kevin O'Neill's hiring was the biggest single
> disaster in NU's athletic department in years.

Bob mentioned the Tommy Amaker situation.  Could it be possible that hiring 'Slick' Rick Taylor was the worst NU athletic decision in ages ?

Chuck Herron   Tech '85

From CHerron604 at aol.com  Thu Dec 16 08:50:06 2004
From: CHerron604 at aol.com (CHerron604@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec 16 08:54:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] ND Intrigues
Message-ID: <1B915D11.4DF55027.0A143833@aol.com>

Buried deep in this very intereting story about the 'back-door' coup d'etat against Ty Willingham

http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-domers14.html

Is a mention that the organizers might like to revisit the 'ND to the Big Ten' talk - even a hint that some kind of meeting took place.

Chuck Herron   Tech '85

From mlinhardt at netzero.com  Thu Dec 16 09:16:49 2004
From: mlinhardt at netzero.com (mlinhardt@netzero.com)
Date: Thu Dec 16 09:19:25 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU news from news.google.com
Message-ID: <20041216.071701.19838.273440@webmail25.nyc.untd.com>


Indian American professor in top pay bracket -- includes Walker's salary
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5967_1147408,001600060001.htm

Student of the Week: Jacob Vugrinac -- wants to play football at Northwestern
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS04/412160331

Highway Name Honors Burton's Life
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/hp/content/news/stories/2004/12/14/sns1214burtonhighway.html?urac=n&urvf=11032097051990.4702258037528919

Bemenderfer commits to Northwestern -- 12/09/04 posting, but I don't believe I have seen it on the list.
http://www.etruth.com/news/story/336960/



________________________________________________________________
NetZero Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.netzero.com/give

From Sanford_Stein at rush.edu  Thu Dec 16 09:48:20 2004
From: Sanford_Stein at rush.edu (Sanford_Stein@rush.edu)
Date: Thu Dec 16 09:48:36 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
Message-ID: <OF6C1489F3.0BC062C1-ON86256F6C.00566F55-86256F6C.0056D2AA@rsh.net>





The turnaround happened when Carmody replaced Hachad
with the much-maligned Duvancic.  DePaul had been hitting a
lot of short jumpers by simply out-leaping the defenders. the
extra height in the lane seemed to take that away and they
couldn't adjust to setting up outside shots.

Also credit Doyle, who had been invisible for the whole game,
with a key steal and a key rebound (which he ripped out of the
hands of a much bigger guy) during the 11-0 run.



From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 16 09:54:45 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 16 09:58:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/16
Message-ID: <000001c4e387$91e635d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Thursday - Basking in a Good Win - Edition **

You can consider the Men's Basketball Mike Thompson Era official begun as the
Court Cats win. Luis Castillo All American in Football. Lots of 
pre Christmas Commits and other news in Recruiting. NU Wrestling coming on
strong. Some Alumni news too...


                                         All the News that Fits We Link
                                         Your Daily Index to News about
                                    Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Northwestern Edges DePaul, 56-52
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121604aaa.html 
     + NU Shuts Down DePaul 56-52
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/331312.html 
     + Comeback Cats dump Demons
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu16.html 
     + Cats claw back with tough D
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=3833744 
     + Northwestern 56, DePaul 52
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/162sd2.htm 
     + Northwestern Claims the Win, City, 56-52
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=1946 

     Mike Thompson:
     + Thompson helps NU tip Blue Demons
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041215depaulgamer,1,91
0871.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Thompson impresses in his debut
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38337146 
     + Bringing Duke grit to NU
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041214nu,1,2154565.sto
ry?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Blaze adds stress for burned out Cat cagers
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-16-04-462454.
html 

Commentary:

     Steve liked what he saw
     SjT: View from the Winning Side
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/331318.html 

Re: De Paul

     Blue Demons Drop Decision to Northwestern
      http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/article.asp?CatID=2&ID=1953 
     + Shooting slump a mystery to Diener
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-demon16.html 

     Living in the Past Dept: Minny Blows out Chicago State
     Minnesota too much for Chicago State to handle
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cage16.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Seton Hall [12/18]
     Pirates' Plank Blog
      http://www.nj.com/weblogs/setonhall/ 
     + Orr unhappy with the performance of his team
      http://www.app.com/app/story/0,21625,1142861,00.html 
     + 2004-05 Statistics
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/stats.asp 

     Arizona State [12/20]
     NU is also their next game
     Season Statistics
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2004-2005/teamstat.h
tml 

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     And the same with Robert Morris...
     Statistics
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/findoutmore.open_page?iCalledBy=findoutmore&iPage=1
489&iT=&iattr=&ivisitor=3273296123718616&ichap=mbasket 

     Delaware State [12/27]
      Statistics
      http://www.dsc.edu/athletics/statistics.php 

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]
     Sanchez Earns Co-Independent Honors
 
http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121504aab.html 
     + Statistics
      http://utpabroncs.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2004-2005/teamcume.html 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Turnovers take Cat women down
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-16-04-462453.
html 

FOOTBALL

     Luis Castillo Named a First-Team All-American by Pro Football Weekly
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121504aaa.html 
     + First Team All American
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331302&nid=1242531&fhn=1 

Looking Ahead::

     Ohio: Solich takes Ohio Post
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/164sd3.htm 
     + University to introduce new football coach
      http://www.ohio.edu/outlook/04-05/a17-045.cfm 

Big 10:

     Former Illini players question coaching search
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041215colfbillini,1,14
35159.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + One year later, Solich lands on feet at Ohio University
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3252692 

     More on the Willingham Debacle
     Ty-gate went deeper than many think
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-domers14.html 
     [Thanks Chuck H]

Commentary:

     Deford:  The most asinine situation in American sport
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/frank_deford/12/15/bcs/index.html 

RECRUITING

     Kris Evans A Good Adventure
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331287&nid=1243598&fhn=1 
     Terrance Jamison Nice To Be Aboard
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331282&nid=1180759&fhn=1 
     Colin McIntosh Unsigned Senior Scores 31
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331238&nid=1167827&fhn=1 
     Willie Walker Top 100 Junior Leads Team
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331058&nid=1163408&fhn=1 
     Dan Doering: Teddy Greenstein: Irish's Weis calls Doering, gets busy signal
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-041215greenstein,1,
5576673.column?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     Rasheed Ward Illinois WR - Rasheed Ward
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=331425 

     Cats add three grid recruits
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-16-04-461221.
html 

WRESTLING

     Wildcats Dominate Competition at Augustana Pre-Christmas Duals
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/recaps/121504aab.html 

Miscellany

     LSU's Saban talks to Dolphins, but no decisions made
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3250764 

Alumni

     Kevin Bentley Probable for the Chargers
      http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/injury.php 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
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The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
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administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
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http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 16 10:03:36 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 16 10:06:53 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
In-Reply-To: <OF6C1489F3.0BC062C1-ON86256F6C.00566F55-86256F6C.0056D2AA@rsh.net>
Message-ID: <000601c4e388$cd7f0e90$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

In my commentary last week, I suggested that Davor could lose the starting job
partially because he seems to play better off the bench.

However, I was astounded to hear [via Dave Eanet] that he was coming off the
bench while I was driving around the Beltway last night.

Doyle is starting at the "small forward" because he makes the inside plays and
grabs rebounds. If he could just get his shots to fall he'd be up there with VV
in scoring too.

BC said after the game that DePaul was simply shooting over our guards, but he
adjusted the matchup zone at 8:40 and that's what shut DePaul down until the
last 20 seconds.

Quite a team performance, but BC also said there was a lot to work on for
SetonHall.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sanford_Stein@rush.edu
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:48 AM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The turnaround happened when Carmody replaced Hachad
> with the much-maligned Duvancic.  DePaul had been hitting a
> lot of short jumpers by simply out-leaping the defenders. the 
> extra height in the lane seemed to take that away and they 
> couldn't adjust to setting up outside shots.
> 
> Also credit Doyle, who had been invisible for the whole game, 
> with a key steal and a key rebound (which he ripped out of 
> the hands of a much bigger guy) during the 11-0 run.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From bondscoop at megapathdsl.net  Thu Dec 16 10:11:40 2004
From: bondscoop at megapathdsl.net (Michael Jackson)
Date: Thu Dec 16 10:15:12 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
In-Reply-To: <OF6C1489F3.0BC062C1-ON86256F6C.00566F55-86256F6C.0056D2AA@rsh.net>
Message-ID: <001601c4e389$f07aa250$0302a8c0@Mike>

DePaul inexplicably stopped feeding Greer at the end of the game.  They
went three or four possessions without getting him a touch.  Credit NU's
improved D with stopping their best scorer.  They also took away the
driving lanes for Mejia.  

NU's offense still needs work.  Doyle doesn't have a shot, Hachad lacks
confidence in his shot, TJ has the make-up to be the go-to-guy but lacks
the consistency, Vedran needs to be more selfish- he has the touch but
needs to get more aggressive when he has the ball, Michael shows
potential in spite of the rustiness- he needs to work on his rebounding,
he was out of position on a lot of rebounds, probably just needs game
time experience.

It was an ugly win but winning ugly is still an improvement over the
earlier games this year.

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
On Behalf Of Sanford_Stein@rush.edu
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:48 AM
To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul





The turnaround happened when Carmody replaced Hachad
with the much-maligned Duvancic.  DePaul had been hitting a
lot of short jumpers by simply out-leaping the defenders. the
extra height in the lane seemed to take that away and they
couldn't adjust to setting up outside shots.

Also credit Doyle, who had been invisible for the whole game,
with a key steal and a key rebound (which he ripped out of the
hands of a much bigger guy) during the 11-0 run.



_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 16 10:21:32 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 16 10:24:49 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
In-Reply-To: <001601c4e389$f07aa250$0302a8c0@Mike>
Message-ID: <000701c4e38b$4ec96fc0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

As BC hinted after the game...

A Win is a Win.

He did give Mike Thompson credit for the victory...I think the rest of the team
had a little bit to do with it, including Mohamed's 3 of 4 FT's at the end of
the game.

Should build a bit of confidence in his shot, along with that good 3 in the 2nd
half.

Go Cats!

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Michael Jackson
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:12 AM
> To: NU Sports List 
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> 
> DePaul inexplicably stopped feeding Greer at the end of the 
> game.  They went three or four possessions without getting 
> him a touch.  Credit NU's improved D with stopping their best 
> scorer.  They also took away the driving lanes for Mejia.  
> 
> NU's offense still needs work.  Doyle doesn't have a shot, 
> Hachad lacks confidence in his shot, TJ has the make-up to be 
> the go-to-guy but lacks the consistency, Vedran needs to be 
> more selfish- he has the touch but needs to get more 
> aggressive when he has the ball, Michael shows potential in 
> spite of the rustiness- he needs to work on his rebounding, 
> he was out of position on a lot of rebounds, probably just 
> needs game time experience.
> 
> It was an ugly win but winning ugly is still an improvement 
> over the earlier games this year.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
> On Behalf Of Sanford_Stein@rush.edu
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:48 AM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The turnaround happened when Carmody replaced Hachad
> with the much-maligned Duvancic.  DePaul had been hitting a
> lot of short jumpers by simply out-leaping the defenders. the 
> extra height in the lane seemed to take that away and they 
> couldn't adjust to setting up outside shots.
> 
> Also credit Doyle, who had been invisible for the whole game, 
> with a key steal and a key rebound (which he ripped out of 
> the hands of a much bigger guy) during the 11-0 run.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From ddave at nusports.com  Thu Dec 16 10:36:19 2004
From: ddave at nusports.com (dave bradley)
Date: Thu Dec 16 10:37:38 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
Message-ID: <20041216163619.0A050725F@sitemail.everyone.net>

I think the game also showed another recurring theme: if the 'Cats play a team who throws a good zone defense at them and forces them to shoot from outside the Cats at risk. 

While NU did a bit better job (I didn't check game stats) from 3-pt range last night than in the past, DePaul created that NU's mid-game scoring drought by forcing NU to - many times - pass the ball around the perimeter for 20 seconds and throw up something just before the shot clock expired.  While having Thompson in the middle to try to recover off rebounds will help, the Cats have to work harder at penetrating the zones and use 3-pt shooting as a backup in some of those situations.

It was nice to see Seacat drain a couple of 3's.....

dave bradley '77
ddave@NUsports.com


--- "Roy S. Lamberton" <rstetson@capps-assoc.com> wrote:

From: "Roy S. Lamberton" <rstetson@capps-assoc.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:21:32 -0500
To: "'Michael Jackson'" <bondscoop@megapathdsl.net>,
	"'NU Sports List '" <nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com>
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul

As BC hinted after the game...

A Win is a Win.

He did give Mike Thompson credit for the victory...I think the rest of the team
had a little bit to do with it, including Mohamed's 3 of 4 FT's at the end of
the game.

Should build a bit of confidence in his shot, along with that good 3 in the 2nd
half.

Go Cats!

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Michael Jackson
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:12 AM
> To: NU Sports List 
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> 
> DePaul inexplicably stopped feeding Greer at the end of the 
> game.  They went three or four possessions without getting 
> him a touch.  Credit NU's improved D with stopping their best 
> scorer.  They also took away the driving lanes for Mejia.  
> 
> NU's offense still needs work.  Doyle doesn't have a shot, 
> Hachad lacks confidence in his shot, TJ has the make-up to be 
> the go-to-guy but lacks the consistency, Vedran needs to be 
> more selfish- he has the touch but needs to get more 
> aggressive when he has the ball, Michael shows potential in 
> spite of the rustiness- he needs to work on his rebounding, 
> he was out of position on a lot of rebounds, probably just 
> needs game time experience.
> 
> It was an ugly win but winning ugly is still an improvement 
> over the earlier games this year.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
> On Behalf Of Sanford_Stein@rush.edu
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:48 AM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The turnaround happened when Carmody replaced Hachad
> with the much-maligned Duvancic.  DePaul had been hitting a
> lot of short jumpers by simply out-leaping the defenders. the 
> extra height in the lane seemed to take that away and they 
> couldn't adjust to setting up outside shots.
> 
> Also credit Doyle, who had been invisible for the whole game, 
> with a key steal and a key rebound (which he ripped out of 
> the hands of a much bigger guy) during the 11-0 run.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports

From bondscoop at megapathdsl.net  Thu Dec 16 10:39:35 2004
From: bondscoop at megapathdsl.net (Michael Jackson)
Date: Thu Dec 16 10:43:04 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
In-Reply-To: <000701c4e38b$4ec96fc0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <001701c4e38d$d6fcc480$0302a8c0@Mike>

After Mohammed hit the three, he pointed to the sky as if to say
"Finally".  His defense, which his is strong suit, improved after making
that shot.  

It was good to see Evan Seacat hit two threes in the second half.  The
cats were lucky there, Doyle was sitting on the sidelines waiting to go
in for Seacat after Evan had a turnover.  There was no stoppage of play
and Evan hit both threes before Doyle could replace him in the lineup.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy S. Lamberton [mailto:rstetson@capps-assoc.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:22 AM
To: 'Michael Jackson'; 'NU Sports List '
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul

As BC hinted after the game...

A Win is a Win.

He did give Mike Thompson credit for the victory...I think the rest of
the team
had a little bit to do with it, including Mohamed's 3 of 4 FT's at the
end of
the game.

Should build a bit of confidence in his shot, along with that good 3 in
the 2nd
half.

Go Cats!

rsl

 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 16 11:31:35 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 16 11:34:51 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
In-Reply-To: <001701c4e38d$d6fcc480$0302a8c0@Mike>
Message-ID: <000a01c4e395$17ff5c20$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Not to toot my own horn but...

I suggested over on PR about a week ago that our play up to last week was very
tentative, primarily because the guys were waiting for Thompson, and all of the
bench guys were trying too hard because their minutes had to decrease once Mike
was eligible.

Once Thompson started playing, and showed what he was capable of on the court,
everyone else started to pick up their game also. I could almost hear the sigh
of relief after he sunk that first layup.

You could also hear BC hint that now that the team was complete for the year,
they could get down to working on things they need to do to improve.

You probably can't get in, but today would be the day to sit up in the top of WR
and watch practice to see what they work on - I bet its on an inside game with
Thompson [and T.J.] getting penetration, and everyone working the offensive
rebound.

Just a hunch.

rsl 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Michael Jackson
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:40 AM
> To: NU Sports List 
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> 
> After Mohammed hit the three, he pointed to the sky as if to 
> say "Finally".  His defense, which his is strong suit, 
> improved after making that shot.  
> 
> It was good to see Evan Seacat hit two threes in the second 
> half.  The cats were lucky there, Doyle was sitting on the 
> sidelines waiting to go in for Seacat after Evan had a 
> turnover.  There was no stoppage of play and Evan hit both 
> threes before Doyle could replace him in the lineup.  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy S. Lamberton [mailto:rstetson@capps-assoc.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:22 AM
> To: 'Michael Jackson'; 'NU Sports List '
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
> 
> As BC hinted after the game...
> 
> A Win is a Win.
> 
> He did give Mike Thompson credit for the victory...I think 
> the rest of the team had a little bit to do with it, 
> including Mohamed's 3 of 4 FT's at the end of the game.
> 
> Should build a bit of confidence in his shot, along with that 
> good 3 in the 2nd half.
> 
> Go Cats!
> 
> rsl
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From spiritu at northwestern.edu  Thu Dec 16 11:51:07 2004
From: spiritu at northwestern.edu (Jonathan Michael Hawkins)
Date: Thu Dec 16 11:52:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Northwestern-DePaul
In-Reply-To: <000a01c4e395$17ff5c20$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
References: <000a01c4e395$17ff5c20$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412161144370.13250@localhost>

> Once Thompson started playing, and showed what he was capable of on the
> court, everyone else started to pick up their game also. I could almost
> hear the sigh of relief after he sunk that first layup.

Hanley mentions this in his Sun-Times article: "One of Vukusic's
three-point shots started a 10-2 NU run that was punctuated with a
Thompson slam off a fast break to tie the game at 47 with 4:31 left."

That dunk was incredible.  The fans, at last, had their reassurance that
Mike Thompson was the big man we'd been looking for.  Everybody likes
dunks, it seems.  If I had to pick the defining moment of that game, it'd
be the fast-break dunk.

What was also incredible was Thompson consistently pumping up the crowd,
beginning after the dunk and rolling all the way through to the end of the
game - exhorting us to cheer louder and make more noise.  I cannot wait to
see how these 'Cats will play at Welsh-Ryan with both sides of the court
packed with Rowdies, responding to Mike and the guys doing things we
haven't seen at NU in a while.

Walking away from the Arena, I recalled fondly the days of Evan Eschmeyer
and thought "we may be back there again." :)

On to the Dance,

Jonathan

From jhipskind at stinsonmoheck.com  Wed Dec 15 22:00:08 2004
From: jhipskind at stinsonmoheck.com (Hipskind, Joseph)
Date: Thu Dec 16 12:48:49 2004
Subject: [BULK] - [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)
Message-ID: <CF388D2892BD394291B563260FEACAA22B5F10@FIRMEXCH03.Our-Firm.com>

Incomplete answer - The only SR they lose who can be labeled as a
significant difference maker is Chicago native Kevin Carberry (a DE.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Nolan [mailto:nolan@romaine.tssi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:19 PM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: [BULK] - [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)


> Should get lots of attention.
>  
> Ohio just hired former Nebraska HC  Frank  Solich.

Yeah, the TV folks will make a big deal out of it.

Frank's from Ohio, he should be popular with the coaches out there, and
I think his style of football can do fairly well in the MAC.  Anybody know
how much talent there is in the system out there?
--
Mike Nolan

_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 16 17:22:49 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 16 17:26:08 2004
Subject: [BULK] - [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <CF388D2892BD394291B563260FEACAA22B5F10@FIRMEXCH03.Our-Firm.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c4e3c6$290d8c40$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Coach Washington [our D Line Coach] left 4 good ends there when he moved over to
NU. It must be tough recruiting in the shadow of dOSU

rsl



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Hipskind, Joseph
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:00 PM
> To: 'Mike Nolan'; nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: RE: [BULK] - [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)
> 
> 
> Incomplete answer - The only SR they lose who can be labeled 
> as a significant difference maker is Chicago native Kevin 
> Carberry (a DE.)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Nolan [mailto:nolan@romaine.tssi.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:19 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: [BULK] - [NU Sports] Opening Football game 2005 (fwd)
> 
> 
> > Should get lots of attention.
> >  
> > Ohio just hired former Nebraska HC  Frank  Solich.
> 
> Yeah, the TV folks will make a big deal out of it.
> 
> Frank's from Ohio, he should be popular with the coaches out 
> there, and I think his style of football can do fairly well 
> in the MAC.  Anybody know how much talent there is in the 
> system out there?
> --
> Mike Nolan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Thu Dec 16 17:45:35 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Thu Dec 16 18:13:46 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
In-Reply-To: <16B858B5.664A4032.0A143833@aol.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300bde7cdbb357f@[66.170.160.53]>

>> ... Kevin O'Neill's hiring was the biggest single
>> disaster in NU's athletic department in years.
>
>Bob mentioned the Tommy Amaker situation.  Could it be possible that
>hiring 'Slick' Rick Taylor was the worst NU athletic decision in ages ?
>
I'd strongly disagree with that -- yeah, he wasn't Mr. Popularity and made
a lot of decisions I didn't agree with.

But he was the person NU *needed* at the time -- in order to move the
athletic department into the modern ages. He did a nice job upgrading
facilities, increasing efficiency and restoring order to what had been a
big ole mess up on Central Street. He did the little things that needed to
be done. Now we're able to move on with a more PR-friendly AD to build on
Rick's foundation.

And I'll say again, missing Amaker wasn't a big deal, IMO. He doesn't
strike me as a coach who would consider NU a destination -- just a stepping
stone. I'm quite happy with Coach Carmody.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 16 19:34:13 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 16 19:37:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bde7cdbb357f@[66.170.160.53]>
Message-ID: <001201c4e3d8$840333e0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Rick and I had our moments, but....

Taylor was the guy who brought in a lot of the latest generation of successful
coaches, including BC and RW.

[OK some of you don't agree with all that]

He also was the guy who got the Ryan remodeling going, laid the foundations for
the addition to Triennens, the Tennis Center, the Golf Center, and the new
Soccer/Field Hockey palace.

I think all and all, RT did a fine job for NU, just as Mark Murphy is continuing
the drive towards excellence.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of SjT 
> (Stephen J. Truog)
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:46 PM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
> 
> 
> >> ... Kevin O'Neill's hiring was the biggest single
> >> disaster in NU's athletic department in years.
> >
> >Bob mentioned the Tommy Amaker situation.  Could it be possible that 
> >hiring 'Slick' Rick Taylor was the worst NU athletic 
> decision in ages ?
> >
> I'd strongly disagree with that -- yeah, he wasn't Mr. 
> Popularity and made a lot of decisions I didn't agree with.
> 
> But he was the person NU *needed* at the time -- in order to 
> move the athletic department into the modern ages. He did a 
> nice job upgrading facilities, increasing efficiency and 
> restoring order to what had been a big ole mess up on Central 
> Street. He did the little things that needed to be done. Now 
> we're able to move on with a more PR-friendly AD to build on 
> Rick's foundation.
> 
> And I'll say again, missing Amaker wasn't a big deal, IMO. He 
> doesn't strike me as a coach who would consider NU a 
> destination -- just a stepping stone. I'm quite happy with 
> Coach Carmody.
> 
> GO CATS!!!
> -SjT
> 
> 
> 888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
> 8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
> 88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
> 88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
> 88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
> 88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
> 888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
> 8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
> ====================================================
> Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From BSchooler at aol.com  Fri Dec 17 00:18:14 2004
From: BSchooler at aol.com (BSchooler@aol.com)
Date: Fri Dec 17 00:22:11 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor
Message-ID: <12c.5350498f.2ef3d426@aol.com>

In case any of you have forgotten, here is a quote from Rick Taylor's press 
release announcing his retirement:

"In a sports world where second-guessing by people who have neither 
responsibility for decisions nor have ever been in the arena has become an art form, I 
can honestly say I have always tried to do right by the institution I have 
worked for and the people with whom I have been associated."

This quote captured what was wrong with Rick Taylor - he was overly defensive 
and had nothing but disdain for Northwestern fans and alumni. Given this 
disdain for "second-guessing" alumni like us, I'm not so sure the interests of 
Northwestern did not take a back seat to the interests of Rick Taylor. 

In addition, Rick Taylor hired Kevin O'Neill, couldn't get along with Gary 
Barnett and paid O'Neill double Barnett's post Rose Bowl salary of $430,000. If 
getting new facilities built was all there was to Rick Taylor's job, we could 
have hired a Project Managment firm instead of an Athletic Director.  

Bob Schooler
From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 17 07:15:31 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 17 07:18:47 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor
In-Reply-To: <12c.5350498f.2ef3d426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002201c4e43a$7cdfe2e0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

At the time, most fans were excited about Kevin O'Neill - he did do some high
profile recruiting, and brought in Jitim Young, among others.  

I'm not sure anyone got along with Gary B his last couple of years. Like it or
not, NU Football was drifting after the two bowl game years. 

A project manager could have rebuilt Ryan, NU probably had one around, just like
they have one for Anderson Hall, but the big job of the AD is finding enough
money, and you have to admit that Taylor got the money flowing back into the
athletic coffers.

As I've said before, Rick Taylor and I had our moments - mostly on e-mail. 

In person, we always had a good relationship.

I think Mark Murphy is an outstanding replacement, but I wonder if Murphy would
have come to NU if Taylor hadn't built the foundation under the present
program's improvement.

Just my thoughts on all this. As an internet journalist, Rick Taylor was always
good for a controversy 4 or 5 times a year.

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of BSchooler@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:18 AM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, Rick Taylor hired Kevin O'Neill, couldn't get 
> along with Gary 
> Barnett and paid O'Neill double Barnett's post Rose Bowl 
> salary of $430,000. If 
> getting new facilities built was all there was to Rick 
> Taylor's job, we could 
> have hired a Project Managment firm instead of an Athletic Director.  
> 
> Bob Schooler
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From bondscoop at megapathdsl.net  Fri Dec 17 07:30:21 2004
From: bondscoop at megapathdsl.net (Michael Jackson)
Date: Fri Dec 17 07:33:15 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor
In-Reply-To: <12c.5350498f.2ef3d426@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c4e43c$92029530$0302a8c0@Mike>

The quote did capture a truth-- we are all second-guessers who have the
benefit of hind-sight.  It is much easier to criticize after the fact
than it is to make decisions in real time.  I think we forget that fact
sometimes when we make comments on this forum.  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com]
On Behalf Of BSchooler@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:18 AM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor

In case any of you have forgotten, here is a quote from Rick Taylor's
press 
release announcing his retirement:

"In a sports world where second-guessing by people who have neither 
responsibility for decisions nor have ever been in the arena has become
an art form, I 
can honestly say I have always tried to do right by the institution I
have 
worked for and the people with whom I have been associated."




From tkmaycock at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 17 09:25:51 2004
From: tkmaycock at yahoo.com (Tom Maycock)
Date: Fri Dec 17 09:27:05 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor
In-Reply-To: <002201c4e43a$7cdfe2e0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <20041217152551.70319.qmail@web52010.mail.yahoo.com>

Re. Rick Taylor:

All I know is that I no longer have to stand in a pool of pee when
using the bathrooms at Ryan Field. For this reason alone, assuming Rick
Taylor was at least a tiny bit responsible for the renovations to the
stadium, I will be forever grateful to him.

Come to think of it, I kind of enjoyed the Kevin O'Neil era at NU. I
think many people viewed his hiring as a bit of a daring coup on the
part of NU. If nothing else, his tenure was certainly entertaining.

Tom

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 17 10:05:12 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 17 10:08:32 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/17
Message-ID: <002901c4e452$31f30d80$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Friday - One Week to Christmas Eve - Edition **

Christmas is coming early for NU Football and Recruiting, as the Cats get
another good commit. 

                                         All the News that Fits We Link
                                         Your Daily Index to News about
                                    Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     The Sports Xchange is predicting a 7 game win streak...
     Notes, Quotes, Getting Inside, Strategy & Personnel
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/northwestern.htm 

Next up are the Pirates - Argh
Seton Hall

     They're 1-0 on the road so far...
     Men's Basketball Travels To Northwestern on Saturday
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2372 
     + Kelly Whitney Athlete of the Week
      http://www.shupirates.com/info/aotw/ 

     The Purple Reign Pregame Intel report will be up later today

Looking Ahead:

     Arizona State [12/20] 
     Men's Hoops Hosts Northwestern Monday At 7 pm
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121604aaa.html 

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     They're next game is with us...

     Delaware State [12/27]
      They take on MSU Saturday

     Texas-Pan American [12/31] 
     Strong Second Half Leads Broncs Past UTPB
      http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121604aab.html 

     Big 10
     Men's Basketball Weekly Release
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121304aac.html 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Florida International Defeats Northwestern, 68-55
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/121604aab.html 
     + Florida International Defeats NU, 68-55
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=1982 

     The Lady Court Cats now head for Puerto Rico for the San Juan Shootout -
Northern Iowa is next
     Kim Hansen Will Undergo Surgery
 
http://unipanthers.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121304aaa.html 
     Statistics
 
http://unipanthers.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2004-2005/teamstat.ht
ml 

FOOTBALL

     a Pre Draft Interview with Luis Castillo
 
http://www.robscouting.com/2005%20NFL%20Draft/Interview/Castillo_interview.htm 

     you can also vote your disappointment....
     the WNUR "extensive season wrap-up page"
      http://sports.wnur.org/football/2004wrapup.html 
     + season-ending report card
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/dg121304.html 

     Sorry, but this guy doesn't have his facts straight - or he didn't watch
some of the games...
     + Silver on the kicking game - See his thoughts on the matter
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/ss121304.html 
     + Gotera with Murphy
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/gotera-murphy121304.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Ohio University: 
     FRANK SOLICH NAMED NEW OHIO FOOTBALL COACH
      http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/football/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2973 
     + Quotes From Around the Country on Coach Solich (PDF)
 
http://www.ohiobobcats.com/releases/attachments/20041216171627132235229145-2.pdf


Commentary:

     Tormey: Three & Out
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/ft120804.html 
     + He also doesn't like the BCS - Find out why here
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/ft121304.html 
     Bobak: The Malcontent
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/gb121304.html 
     WNUR's Bowl Picks
      http://sports.wnur.org/football/pigskin04wk15.html 
     Garcia:  power rankings
      http://sports.wnur.org/analysts/rg121304.html 

RECRUITING

     Kurt Mattes Pledges Big Ten School
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331676&nid=1177933&fhn=1 
     + Fine PA Lineman Pledges NU
      http://admin.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=331965 

     Meanwhile down in Champaign
     Late start has Illini coach Zook playing catch-up
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cruit17.html 

     Here's a kid who knows what he wants
     Jacob Vugrinac: Student of the Week
 
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS04/412160331 

     Random Thoughts: Scholarship Math Dec 17th
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/331733.html 

WRESTLING

     Wildcats Dominate Competition at Augustana Pre-Christmas Duals
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/stories/121504aag.html 

Miscellany

     Tarnished Domers
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/174sd1.htm 

Alumni

     Jason Wright: Video
 
javascript:openBrWindow('/multimedia/av/avPlayer.jsp?id=3678','av','width=398,he
ight=530,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,status=no') 
     + Transcript of the tape
      http://www.atlantafalcons.com/gameday/article.jsp?id=3680 
     + Quick And Smart
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=331879&nid=1541592&fhn=1 
     [Thanks to Brad May down in Atlanta]

     Kevin Bentley: Still Probable
      http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/injury.php 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Fri Dec 17 10:53:48 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Fri Dec 17 10:53:51 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Rick Taylor (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412171653.iBHGrmO5017731@romaine.tssi.com>

> This quote captured what was wrong with Rick Taylor - he was overly defensive 
> and had nothing but disdain for Northwestern fans and alumni. Given this 
> disdain for "second-guessing" alumni like us, I'm not so sure the interests of 
> Northwestern did not take a back seat to the interests of Rick Taylor. 

Bob, if you want to be truly reviled in life, become an AD.  Here in 
Nebraska the AD recently finished at the top of the list of most hated
individuals in the state.  

Was Rick Taylor perfect?  No.  Did he have a tough job in which he made
a lot of tough calls?  Yep.  Some worked out OK, others didn't.  I don't
think Barnett could have been kept happy under any circumstances, but it
would have taken a LOT of guts to have sent him packing before he finally
left voluntarily, far more than any AD would have had.  

I also think that the renaming of the football stadium has put a sports 
curse upon the Cats that may rival Wrigley Field's goat or possibly even 
the Curse of the Bambino.  

However, in the long run, I'm glad Taylor was at NU, and I'm equally glad 
he retired.  A good AD will wear out his welcome, and that's what
I think happened with Rick Taylor.  An ineffective AD doesn't wear out
his welcome as fast, but he doesn't get much accomplished either.
--
Mike Nolan

From spiritu at northwestern.edu  Fri Dec 17 12:29:05 2004
From: spiritu at northwestern.edu (Jonathan Michael Hawkins)
Date: Fri Dec 17 12:30:13 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Professional Baseball references
In-Reply-To: <200412171653.iBHGrmO5017731@romaine.tssi.com>
References: <200412171653.iBHGrmO5017731@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412171221130.16226@localhost>

> I also think that the renaming of the football stadium has put a sports
> curse upon the Cats that may rival Wrigley Field's goat or possibly even
> the Curse of the Bambino.

The Curse of the Bambino has nothing on the Curse of the Goat.  For
starters, the Bambino played for the Yankees.  I mean, if you want to
cheer for fascism, go ahead and be a Yankees fan.  Second, the BoSox *got*
to the World Series a few times, they just choked like the Yankees they
all want to be.

That doesn't even come close to not even tasting a pennant since Truman
had to massively compensate for something.  As Steve Goodman once sang,
"you know the law of averages says that anything will happen that can,
(that's what it says), but the last time the Cubs won a national league
pennant was the year we dropped the bomb on Japan."

Now *that's* a curse.  Although I think the Cubbies have had the last
laugh - the Billy Goat Tavern recently closed its Wrigleyville location's
doors.

All In Good Fun,

Jonathan

From NEONRye at aol.com  Fri Dec 17 13:28:11 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Fri Dec 17 13:32:08 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Miami of Ohio Coach to Take Hoosiers Job
Message-ID: <1d8.32db8947.2ef48d4b@aol.com>

Hot off the AP wires (posted on AOL):
 
"Indiana was expected to name Miami of Ohio's Terry Hoeppner as the new  
Hoosiers football coach on Friday, according to newspaper reports.
 
Hoeppner has accepted the IU job and told his Miami team late Thursday of  
his decision, Miami athletics spokesman Mike Harris told The Cincinnati Enquirer 
 on Friday after The Herald-Times of Bloomington reported the move on its Web 
 site."
 
The Hoosier Athletic Dept. has scheduled news conference for this  afternoon. 
 
 
Paul Levinson
From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Fri Dec 17 13:53:39 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Fri Dec 17 13:53:41 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Miami of Ohio Coach to Take Hoosiers Job (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412171953.iBHJrdYI018827@romaine.tssi.com>

> "Indiana was expected to name Miami of Ohio's Terry Hoeppner as the new  
> Hoosiers football coach on Friday, according to newspaper reports.

Well, that should add a little interest to the NU-Indiana game.  
--
Mike Nolan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 17 14:18:59 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 17 19:51:31 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Professional Baseball references
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412171221130.16226@localhost>
Message-ID: <002a01c4e475$a4d4c2d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

Steve Goodman also has a line in one of his song that goes something like...

'When the Cubs win the World Series, then I'll come back to you."

I wonder if we could change the words to the Lincoln Park Pirates to be the
Seton Hall Pirates....

"Way, Hey, throw them away...the Seton Hall Pirates are we."

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan 
> Michael Hawkins
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:29 PM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Professional Baseball references
> 
> 
> > I also think that the renaming of the football stadium has put a 
> > sports curse upon the Cats that may rival Wrigley Field's goat or 
> > possibly even the Curse of the Bambino.
> 
> The Curse of the Bambino has nothing on the Curse of the 
> Goat.  For starters, the Bambino played for the Yankees.  I 
> mean, if you want to cheer for fascism, go ahead and be a 
> Yankees fan.  Second, the BoSox *got* to the World Series a 
> few times, they just choked like the Yankees they all want to be.
> 
> That doesn't even come close to not even tasting a pennant 
> since Truman had to massively compensate for something.  As 
> Steve Goodman once sang, "you know the law of averages says 
> that anything will happen that can, (that's what it says), 
> but the last time the Cubs won a national league pennant was 
> the year we dropped the bomb on Japan."
> 
> Now *that's* a curse.  Although I think the Cubbies have had 
> the last laugh - the Billy Goat Tavern recently closed its 
> Wrigleyville location's doors.
> 
> All In Good Fun,
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From johnl at mac.com  Fri Dec 17 23:39:41 2004
From: johnl at mac.com (John Labbe)
Date: Fri Dec 17 23:39:58 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Miami of Ohio Coach to Take Hoosiers Job (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <200412171953.iBHJrdYI018827@romaine.tssi.com>
References: <200412171953.iBHJrdYI018827@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <36C231C6-50B7-11D9-9315-000A95960BF2@mac.com>

Too bad they're off the schedule the next two years, though.  Actually, 
now it's probably good.  We seem cursed about beating Miami, and that 
will probably carry over to Indiana now.

Different subject:  I'm giving away two tickets to the basketball game 
on December 31 versus UT-Pan American at 1:00 P.M.  They're free to the 
first to respond.  I'll stick them in the mail to you---unless I get a 
better offer.

John

On Dec 17, 2004, at 1:53 PM, Mike Nolan wrote:

>> "Indiana was expected to name Miami of Ohio's Terry Hoeppner as the 
>> new
>> Hoosiers football coach on Friday, according to newspaper reports.
>
> Well, that should add a little interest to the NU-Indiana game.
> --
> Mike Nolan
>
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
>

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Sat Dec 18 08:30:03 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Sat Dec 18 08:33:17 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000101c4e50e$117f1320$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>


Chat during the Game in the Free Chat room on Purple Reign

Click the Free Chat icon...

http://mb.scout.com/bnorthwestern

From tmcadams at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 18 16:12:42 2004
From: tmcadams at yahoo.com (Trey McAdams)
Date: Sat Dec 18 16:13:53 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] the grad rates show that...
In-Reply-To: <1e0.315459cb.2ef21567@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041218221242.42263.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com>

Tommy Amaker situation is actually worse than that.

He did want the job.  He was offered the job...But, NU
insulted his wife.  She is a very successful
psychiatrist (I think or Dr of some sort).  When they
had the Amakers up to Chicago for the interview.  The
NU crowd "tea-partied" Dr. Amaker.  Which, to say the
least was the wrong approach.  They should have been
trying to find a practice for her.

So responsibility for that lays squarely at the AD. 
You are recruiting the coaches and their families. 
Some more so than others.
 
--- BSchooler@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/15/2004 4:57:53 AM Central
> Standard Time, 
> bwdolphin146@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> > ... Kevin O'Neill's hiring was the biggest single
> > disaster in NU's athletic department in years. A
> > foul-mouthed, overbearing creep, he was miserable
> in
> > every way. 
> 
> Even worse, Tommy Amaker (sp?), a highly regarded
> Duke assistant at the time, 
> was openly campaigning for the Northwestern job.
> Yes, there was some talk 
> that he had rebuffed Northwestern years earlier, but
> he apparently felt he wasn't 
> ready for a head coaching position at that time. But
> he did feel he was ready 
> in 1997, but Rick Taylor, in all his stubborn
> stupidity, hired Kevin O'Neill 
> instead.
> 
> Bob Schooler
> 
> Bob Schooler
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 



		
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From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Sun Dec 19 04:20:41 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Sun Dec 19 04:23:58 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/19
Message-ID: <000b01c4e5b4$65a5dfa0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Sunday Morning Wrapup Edition **

Another Basketball win, on Vedran's birthday. Also news of future opponents,
women's 
Basketball also gets back to work on Monday. Wrestling gets an impressive win,
and there's 
also recruiting news, Big 10 Football, and some Miscellany too

                        All the News that Fits We Link
                       Your Daily Index to News about
                  Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Northwestern Downs Seton Hall, 53-44
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121804aaa.html 
     $ Cats Sink the Pirates: 53-44
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/332301.html 
     + Defense propels Cats past Seton Hall
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041218nugamer,1,450832
7.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Northwestern 53, Seton Hall 44
 
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/12/18/sports1812EST05
07.DTL 
     + Birthday boy puts Cats on his back
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041218nugamer,1,450832
7.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Vukusic helps Cats reach .500
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3834099 

     Box score
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041218nubox,1,7171094.
storylink?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Brandon Lee: Has OK to Play, But..
     . http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=332264&nid=1224631&fhn=1 

Seton Hall Pirates - Argh

     Men's Basketball Falls at Northwestern, 53-44
      http://www.shupirates.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=2376 
     + Pirates' Plank Blog
      http://www.nj.com/weblogs/setonhall/ 

  Looking Ahead:

     Arizona State [12/20]
     Men's Hoops Hosts Northwestern Monday At 7 p.m.
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121604aaa.html 

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     Their next game is with us...

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Second half dooms Hornets in loss to Michigan State
      http://www.dsc.edu/athletics/index.php?action=fullnews&id=110 
     + DelState takes on another tough foe
 
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2004/12/18delstatetakeson.html 
     + No. 21 Spartans Down Delaware State
      http://msuspartans.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121804aae.html

     + From The Lockerroom
      http://msuspartans.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121804aad.html

     + Post-Game Notes
      http://msuspartans.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/121804aaa.html


     Texas-Pan American [12/31]
     Sanchez Earns Co-Independent Honors
 
http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121504aab.html 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Our next opponenet - Northern Iowa
     Panthers Travel to Puerto Rico for San Juan Shootout
 
http://unipanthers.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121704aab.html 
     + Kim Hansen Will Undergo Surgery
 
http://unipanthers.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121304aaa.html 

FOOTBALL



Looking Ahead:

     Indiana hires Hoeppner
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38339115 
     + Indiana hires Miami (Ohio) coach
      http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/s_284773.html 
     + Big plans for Big Red
      http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/10448342.htm 
     + Terry Hoeppner Named Indiana Football Coach
 
http://www.fansonly.com/schools/big10/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121704aab.html 

RECRUITING

     Craig Moore: 10 special players who'll make their point
 
http://www.nj.com/hssports/boysbasketball/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110329
9803244401.xml 
     + Blair 82, Lawrenceville 66:
 
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1103362281142360.xml?starledge
r?hsbbb 

WRESTLING

     Wildcats Win Beast of the East Invitational
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/recaps/121704aaa.html 
     Speaker of the House to Conduct Book-Signing at 42nd Midlands Championships

     http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/121704aac.html 

Miscellany

     Seniors intrigued by idea of permanent retirement cruise
      http://www.klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2709979 
     Report: BCS might let committee set national title game
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3256800 
     Remember Ben?
     While Roethlisberger thrives, Eli Manning simply tries to survive - A tale
of two 
     QBs
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/181sd3.htm 
     Bagpipe's wail takes him back to a piney woods on a moonlit night
 
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/freeman/20041218-9999-1c18freeman.html 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From warneradams at comcast.net  Sun Dec 19 18:10:58 2004
From: warneradams at comcast.net (WarnerAdams)
Date: Sun Dec 19 18:11:13 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] National Rankings and Other Stats
Message-ID: <FAEKJPMOLIIOGGOLIKLBAEFDDGAA.warneradams@comcast.net>

While finishing the marathon task of picking every bowl game for Stephen's
contest, I perused the NCAA football statistics from this year.  It's been
covered here in the past, but our national rankings made it clear where our
weakness lies:  40th in the Nation in Rushing Offense, 40th in Passing
Offense, 47th in Rushing Defense and 99th in Passing Defense.

Other interesting rankings:  107th out of 117 in net punting
Fumbles Lost: 2nd in the nation.  Only two all year.
Passing Efficiency: 96th.

With a 6-6 record this year I have us at 431-592-43 all time or an overall
winning percentage of .424.  A 21-14 loss to Wisconsin in our 4th game of
1972 drove us under .500 and we haven't returned since.

The win over Ohio State was our 14th all-time, same number of victories as
over Michigan.

All Time Winning Pcts Against Current Big Ten Teams:

IN .553
IL .454
WI .372
MN .372
PD .340
PS .300
IA .295
MS .289
MI .231
OS .207


David Warner ('88)
Evanston, IL


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Sun Dec 19 22:51:21 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Sun Dec 19 22:56:22 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] National Rankings and Other Stats
In-Reply-To: <FAEKJPMOLIIOGGOLIKLBAEFDDGAA.warneradams@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <l03130302bdec089fbc44@[66.170.160.89]>

>While finishing the marathon task of picking every bowl game for Stephen's
>contest,

:) - thanks for the plug (and don't forget that we skipped the N'awlens
Bowl, so you coulda had one more!) ... don't forget that they need to be in
by Tuesday!

>covered here in the past, but our national rankings made it clear where our
>weakness lies:  40th in the Nation in Rushing Offense, 40th in Passing
>Offense, 47th in Rushing Defense and 99th in Passing Defense.

Interesting -- we certainly had much more balance this year on offense,
thanks to Baz' maturation (and despite some injuries at wideout), so that's
nice to see. And our run defense looks good too.

The pass D was to be expected ... losing Loren at the start hurt any
semblance of a pass rush and really had us focusing to take away the run
and making teams pass to beat us. We never had the secondary to shut a team
down and playing Hawaii certainly hurt those numbers.:) Not good, but I
expected that.

>Other interesting rankings:  107th out of 117 in net punting

Ouch! SPECIAL TEAMS HEEEELLLLLPPPP!

>Fumbles Lost: 2nd in the nation.  Only two all year.

This is a HUGE improvement from our turnover-plagued 2003 season. Big kudos
to Noah Herron for protecting the ball. I thought we had more than 2 from
Jordan, but I guess I'm just thinking of that dang ASU game fumble ...
otherwise, looks like TJ did well as well.

>IN .553
>IL .454
>WI .372
>MN .372
>PD .340

We've really stumbled with the pesky vermin from Minny and Purdoo recently,
but been strong on IU, UI and Wisky the last decade or so (Michigan too,
actually).

Interesting look at the numbers. I know the W/L is the only one that
ultimately counts, but I think those stats above show a better team on the
field in 2004 than in 2003. Good balance on O, solid run D, better on
turnovers and some nice wins. Much as a lot of us predicted in the
preseason - we'd have a better team, but the record might not show it with
the schedule. It doesn't get any easier next year with MSU and Iowa back on
the schedule and Indiana off. Ouch.

But fortunately, things are looking up on the hardcourt to keep us occupied
between now and spring football. A win at ASU this week would be huge to
heading into league play with a lot of momentum. Hopefully Peg's
golden-shirt "ASU! ASU! ASU!" friends will be on their way to El Paso and
not making noise at the game.:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Mon Dec 20 12:02:22 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Mon Dec 20 12:06:18 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/20
Message-ID: <003201c4e6be$0f61aa10$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

**  Weekend Wrapup Edition **
More Basketball on the win over Seton Hall - mostly from their side, then
previewing ASU. 
Women get ready to play down where its warm.Recruiting updates for ya, along
with some 
Wrestling - Previewing the Midlands, and some Miscellany to spark some
discussion...


                        All the News that Fits We Link
                       Your Daily Index to News about
                  Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Hilton Garden Inn Athletes of the Week

Its All Roundball-Purple Reign Congrats to: Vedran Vukusic and Sarah Kwasinski
 http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/122004aaa.html

Men's BASKETBALL

     Defense name of NU's game
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu19.html

     Wildcats Invade Land of Sun Devils
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121904aab.html

     Sports XChange - Redux: Notes, Quotes, Getting Inside
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/northwestern.htm

Seton Hall Pirates - Argh Matey's

     We didn't beat them, they lost ... ?
     Horrible shooting sinks the Pirates
 
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxNjImZmdiZWw
3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY2MjgyNTAmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
     + Cerasoli shakes off early jitters
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110343671448070.xml
     + No shot for Whitney, Pirates
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110343683048070.xml
     + Garrett is Hall's Midwest 'rep'
 
http://www.nj.com/setonhall/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1103350233235940.xml
     + Pirates' Plank Blog
      http://www.nj.com/weblogs/setonhall/

  Looking Ahead:

     Arizona State [12/20]
     Men's Hoops Hosts Northwestern Monday At 7 p.m.
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121604aaa.html
     + Another big man awaits ASU's Diogu
      http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/1220asuhoops1220.html
     + 2004-05 Outlook
 
http://thesundevils.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101204aab.html

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     Their next game is with us...still in exams

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Game with Jacksonville State tonight
     Wake up, Sparty!
 
http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2004/12/19/sports.20041219-sbt-MICH-D4-W
ake_up__Sparty_.sto

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]
     Play tonight.

Big 10:

     No. 1 Illini just won't let up
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ill20.html
     + Brown-ie points aplenty in rout
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041219illinigamer,1,16
92712.story?coll=cs-college-headlines
     + Augustine can't wait for Mizzou
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041219illinibits,1,540
1803.story?coll=cs-college-headlines
     + Illini keep their winning edge
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3834155
     + Television special to offer inside look at No. 1 Illini
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3834164

     By the way, DePaul's Quemont Greer got his 1000th point
     Greer's landmark game
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041218depaulgamer,1,32
70170.story?coll=cs-college-headlines

Women's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats To Shoot It Out in Puerto Rico
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/121904aac.html

FOOTBALL

      Its all recruiting folks...

RECRUITING

     Thomas Bemenderfer: Impressive 4.14 not in the 40
 
http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2004/12/17/sports.20041217-sbt-MARS-C1-I
mpressive_4_14_not_.sto
     [Thanks Jerry]
     + Offense or Defense
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=332936&nid=1328634&fhn=1

     Conor Gillen: Will Illinois come through?
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=332870&nid=1201716&fhn=1 

     Corey Wootton: $ Jersey Four Enjoy Trip
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=332519 

     James Ruffin: MN FB Commits to Gateway School
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=332410&nid=1165273&fhn=1 
     + Burnsville FB James Ruffin Makes College Choice
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=332409 

WRESTLING

     The Midlands
     Ticket Info/Directions
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/midlands-info
0304.pdf 
     Weight Class Preview
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/weight_class_
preview_113004.pdf 
     Schedule for Competitors
 
http://www.fansonly.com/photos/schools/nw/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/2004-Midlands
-skedcompetitors.pdf 

Miscellany

     Willingham ouster initiated by Jenkins
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041219irishfoot,1,3203
450.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 

     Illinois has a few coaches who want to finish a game without a running
clock...
     Mercy Rule Draws Criticism
      http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/204sd4.htm 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Mon Dec 20 20:05:07 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Mon Dec 20 20:09:04 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] (no subject)
Message-ID: <003501c4e701$80eee560$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>


Chat during the game

At the regular place.

rsl
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
No Society has ever Taxed or Litigated
itself to prosperity...Think about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Mon Dec 20 18:42:33 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Tue Dec 21 13:55:03 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] PIGSKIN PICKS - Bowl Pool
Message-ID: <l03130300bded208ca3d6@[66.170.160.89]>

Here are my bowl game picks ... make sure you get yours in by noon tomorrow
(Tuesday) if you haven't already ...

* CHAMPS BOWL: Georgia Tech 27, Syracuse 12
-- Would be a better basketball game, but the bowl season starts with these
two inconsistent teams. The Cuse ended the year better, but Tech is in a
better conference. A far better conference.

* GMAC BOWL: Memphis 44, Bowling Green 34
-- The MAC is getting its chance to prove it deserves more bowl bids this
year, but will anybody watch? Probably not ... but this game is one of the
more entertaining matchups. The Tigers outgun the BUGS.

* FORT WORTH BOWL: Cincinnati 16, Marshall 12
-- And this is the flip side of the MAC bowls - an unentertaining game that
really shows that mid-level teams from the big conferences are better than
a lot of the top-tier teams from the mid majors.

* VEGAS BOWL: UCLA 38, Wyoming 21
-- The Bruins ended the season giving SC a scare while the Cowboys got
crushed at home by Utah. The sooner they end this game, the sooner they can
hit the Strip.

* HAWAII BOWL: Hawaii 48, UAB 44
-- Could be one of the more entertaining shootouts in bowl week, but as MSU
and NU found out, it's tough to beat the Warriors (and their home-island
officials) in Honolulu.

* MPC BOWL: Fresno State 23, Virginia 20
-- The Bulldogs know the blue turf and approach this game as a chance to
prove they belong ... the Cavs wilted down the stretch in the ACC, passed
up Orlando for Boise (?!?!) and have made a habit of not showing up for
bowls. By the time they wake up and play, it's too late.

* MOTOR CITY BOWL: Toledo 40, Connecticut 20
-- The MAC champs feel right at home in Ford Field and blitz newcomer UConn
early and often.

* INDEPENDENCE BOWL: Miami (OH) 27, Iowa State 24
-- A decent game -- the Redhawks should win handily, but the coaching
change takes its toll (is Indiana really a step up over Miami?) and Miami
has to escape late.

* INSIGHT BOWL: Oregon State 26, Notre Dame 10
-- It won't be as ugly as the last time the Beavers ambushed the Irish in
the desert, but the result is the same. Oregon State hung in there with the
likes of USC and LSU this year, so they won't be jittery ... while the
Irish are still stinging from the school's classless and embarassing
coaching shuffle fiasco.

* HOUSTON BOWL: Colorado 41, UTEP 20
-- The Miners are a good story and it'd be nice to see them win, but the
Buffs have too much power up front and steamroll UTEP early.

* ALAMO BOWL: Ohio State 31, Oklahoma State 28
-- This is one of the five best bowl games to watch, with great playmakers
on both sides of the ball. The Buckeyes opened up the O lately and have
found some success ... while the Cowpokes have a habit of jumping out to
big leads and falling asleep. In the end, Buckeyeball is poise and special
teams, and that wins close games.

* TIRE BOWL: North Carolina 20, Boston College 14
-- A future ACC matchup, but the Eagles let the BCS slip away while the
Heels have finished strong and are virtually at home.

* EMERALD BOWL: Navy 37, New Mexico 17
-- Anchors away! The Middies cap a successful season with a big bowl win.

* HOLIDAY BOWL: California 56, Texas Tech 27
-- There's usually a lot of scoring in San Diego for the bowl game ...
could be a shootout, but the Bears are angry about being passed over and
Tech pays the price.

* SILICON VALLEY BOWL: Troy 24, Northern Illinois 10
-- Will anyone watch this one? After all the whining about not being in a
bowl, the Huskies blow their big chance to prove they deserved it all those
years.

* MUSIC CITY BOWL: Alabama 16, Minnesota 7
-- The Gophers can't move the ball on the Tide defense and ... much like
their season, just stop trying midway through.

* SUN BOWL: Purdue 45, Arizona State 27
-- Could have been a great shootout if Walter hadn't gotten hurt, without
their QB and with Purdue having a healthy Orton, the Boilers roll here.

* LIBERTY BOWL: Louisville 55, Boise State 52
-- The best bowl game of 'em all (most entertaining at least) could be in
Memphis this year, with two bombs-away offenses and two teams who deserved
BCS bowls more than the Big Least ... and managed to keep their coaches
despite some big offers. The Cardinals win a fun one and the BCS breathes a
quarter sigh of relief on the unbeatens.

* PEACH BOWL: Florida 31, Miami (FL) 21
-- A good Peach Bowl rivalry matchup for the Sunshine State title this year
since both beat FSU ... lots of trash talking, but the young Gators get
their revenge on Brock for leaving and triumph. Bring on the Urban era!

* OUTBACK BOWL: Georgia 38, Wisconsin 14
-- Both teams were in the top 5, but collapsed in November. Georgia has
more talent and rolls over the Badgers much like MSU and Iowa did.

* COTTON BOWL: Texas A&M 24, Tennessee 14
-- The Vols had some close scrapes against mediocre teams at the end of
November ... then played solid against Auburn? Which team will show up? I'm
betting the letdown type as Aggieland fills the Cotton Bowl and cheers a
big win.

* GATOR BOWL: Florida State 45, West Virginia 10
-- A snoozer in Jacksonville as "Saint" Bobby does to his alma mater what
he does to family - run up the score. Yawn. Though it is fun to see a BCS
year with ZERO Florida teams!

* CITRUS BOWL: Iowa 13, LSU 12
-- What the Liberty Bowl is to offense, the Citrus is to defense this year,
with two great defenses and a great chess match of head coaches. LSU has
some great athletes, but Ferentz has the Hawks on a roll with the waterboy
as running back. Drew Tate leads a late drive and his Hawkeye legend
continues to grow. Great game.

* QUASI-ROSE BOWL: Michigan 27, Texas 24
-- The Granddaddy once again is tainted with a Big XII intruder, but at
least it should provide the best of a boring BCS slate. Texas has talent
galore, but Mack still can't coach it worth squat ... the Rose Bowl means
more to Michigan, and after losing last year, the Wolverines win it this
year as Edwards makes a big case for top pick in the NFL draft.

* FIESTA BOWL: Utah 23, Pittsburgh 7
-- Not much reason to stay up late ... Utah caps a cinderella season by
soundly trouncing a team that has no business being in the BCS. Instead of
giving us Auburn-Utah, the crappy B(C)S puts the Utes in a no-win
situation. A win here won't prove they belonged because the Big Least
doesn't belong. Still, a nice sendoff to Meyer and a storybook season,
nevermind the somewhat bittersweet ending.

* SUGAR BOWL: Auburn 34, Virginia Tech 10
-- The Hokies are solid and hang with the Tigers early, but Auburn's the
best team in the nation all-around, solid on offense and defense, and they
wear down VaTech in the second half. Too bad we didn't get to see Auburn in
Miami ... or at least vs. Utah ... but they make their case for #1 with a
resounding win.

* ORANGE BOWL: USC 38, Oklahoma 20
-- This title game has it all -- the #1 and #2 ranked teams all season
(though not the best ... see Auburn), the big four Heisman candidates, two
of the game's best coaches and two of the world's most annoying bands
playing the same friggin' song over and over and over and over. At least
OU's has more than three notes. Hopefully the Sooner Schooner and Trojan
Horse collide at midfield. As for the game, I really don't think it will be
that close. The Big XII and OU were overrated last year and exposed ...
they're overrated again this year but the Big XII didn't have the talent to
expose it. USC does. With calm Leinhardt leading the way and Pete and Norm
having weeks to prepare, the Trojans will carve up the Sooner D like OSU
and ATM did, while USC's defense will be ready to stuff White and Peterson.
While folks in Auburn will disagree, the Trojans won't have to share the
title this time.

GO CATS!!!
Go Wolverines! Go Hawkeyes! Go Badgers! Go Bucks! Go Boilers! Go Gophers!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Tue Dec 21 20:51:17 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Tue Dec 21 20:51:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] AP wants out of BCS?!
Message-ID: <200412220251.iBM2pHfM032504@romaine.tssi.com>

AP says it wants out of the BCS standings starting in 2005 because:

1.  They never gave permission for their poll to be used.

2.  The BCS's use of the AP poll is damaging the credibility of
    the Associated Press.

Stay tuned, this is likely to get much funnier.
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Tue Dec 21 21:11:31 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Tue Dec 21 21:16:29 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] The B(C)S takes a hit ...
Message-ID: <l03130300bdee8aa9db11@[66.170.161.2]>

Apparently the AP has asked that their poll no longer be used in the BCS
rankings starting in 2005!

That means that the computers (no comment) and these anonymous coaches
(i.e. SID junior intern assistants) who put Cal sixth or so will now
determine our B(C)S "title" games.

Another step toward dismantling this system - woohoo!:) The Rose Bowl is
talking half a step outside of the ring by dealing with ABC while the rest
go to Fox ... now we need the Big Ten or Pac 10 (or both) to withdraw and
the house of cards will collapse for sure.

As for that ASU hoops game last night -- ouch! The score does look a lot
uglier than most of the game was, but ASU is a pretty darn good team. And
they looked a lot like a Big Ten team in size and play, so that was
probably good to show us what we need to do before January.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From spiritu at northwestern.edu  Tue Dec 21 23:58:47 2004
From: spiritu at northwestern.edu (Jonathan Michael Hawkins)
Date: Tue Dec 21 23:59:55 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bdee8aa9db11@[66.170.161.2]>
References: <l03130300bdee8aa9db11@[66.170.161.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412212357260.27884@localhost>

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
> As for that ASU hoops game last night -- ouch! The score does look a lot
> uglier than most of the game was, but ASU is a pretty darn good team. And
> they looked a lot like a Big Ten team in size and play, so that was
> probably good to show us what we need to do before January.

Does anyone here know why BC apparently gave the go-ahead for the team to
play a pretty different style of offense?  It was kinda neat to see them
go for fast breaks more aggressively - does anyone know if this is a
portent of the future or just an experiment?

Jonathan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec 21 09:18:09 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec 22 13:11:26 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/21
Message-ID: <003601c4e770$48e35d30$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Up and Down-First day of Winter Edition **

It was a night where Men's Basketball lost and Women's Basketball Won Stories
from both 
sides of the table. Looking ahead too. There's also another Commit and some
background on 2 
more big guys along with more news on our Roundball recruit. The Midlands
Wrestling 
seedings are out, and some basketball Miscellany...


                        All the News that Fits We Link
                       Your Daily Index to News about
                  Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Northwestern Falls To Arizona State
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/122004aaa.html 
     + Shon M.: Not our night - ASU 90 NU 55
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/333152.html 
     + Wildcats scorched by hot shooting
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041220nugamer,1,903840
.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + NU crushed in 2nd half
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu21.html 
     + NU blitzed in 2nd half
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38342116 
     + Arizona State Spanks Northwestern, 90-55
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=2107 

     Final Stats
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/122104aaa.html 

>From Tempe:

     ASU dominates Northwestern
 
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/1221asubkb1121.html 
     + Devils Wallop Wildcats
      http://arizonastate.scout.com/2/333222.html 
     + ASU dominates Northwestern
      http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/1221asubkb1121.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Robert Morris [12/22]
     Their next game is with us...

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Hornets top Jacksonville State on buzzer beater
      http://www.dsc.edu/athletics/index.php?action=fullnews&id=111 
     + Hornets win with late rally
 
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2004/12/21hornetswinwithl.html 
     + DSU basketball: Hunter comes up big
 
http://www.newszap.com/articles/2004/12/20/dm/central_delaware/sports/dsnspt03.t
xt 

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]
     Strong `D' Leads UTPA Past BSC, 69-57
      http://utpabroncs.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/122004aaa.html 

Big 10:

     Illini retain No. 1 spot in polls
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38342102 

Commentary:

     POD: Team Leaders? Who's stepping up?
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/332960.html 

     How good was Greer?
     Greer Earns Another Player of Week Honor
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=2113 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats Take Down Panthers, 66-58
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/122004aaa.html 
     + Wildcats Take Down Panthers, 66-58
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=2102 

FOOTBALL

     Its all recruiting folks...but some Big 10 news
     Ohio State kicker seeks rare 6th year of eligibility
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3263656 

RECRUITING

     Updates on a new commit, and two more big guys
     Adam Hahn Changes verbal commitment
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333011&nid=1189086&fhn=1 
     + Indiana coach makes contact
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333110&nid=1189086&fhn=1 
     Thomas Bemenderfer Defense? or Offense...
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=332936&nid=1328634&fhn=1 
     Tyler Compton Why he chose Northwestern
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333111&nid=1486334&fhn=1 

     Ramon Diaz Redskins get by Indians
 
http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16&SubSectionID=72&ArticleID
=12506&TM=35425 

     Craig Moore Scores 21 in Loss
 
http://www.lawrenceville.org/on_campus/athletics/team/event_detail.asp?team=NT00
00BC5E&event=1ACAE 
     From the Boys Club tournament
 
http://www.lawrenceville.org/on_campus/athletics/team/event_detail.asp?team=NT00
00BC5E&event=1A21E 

SWIMMING

     Northwestern Outduels Penguins in Bahamas 
     http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-swim/recaps/121904aaa.html 

WRESTLING

     Final Pre-Seed Rankings for 42nd Midlands Championships
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/122004aab.html 

Miscellany

     Hoosier Daddy sighting
     Doing the Bob 'n' Steve: Knight, Alford meet again
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-iowa21.html 

     How to party without packing on the pounds
      http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/living/10462331.htm 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec 22 16:56:28 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Wed Dec 22 17:00:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Chat during the Game Tonight
Message-ID: <005101c4e879$7a431500$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>



Same Cat Time, Same Cat Chat room

http://pub43.bravenet.com/chat/show.php?usernum=3660815782&cpv=2

Lets see if we can get back to .500

Go Cats!

rsl

From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Wed Dec 22 17:04:10 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Wed Dec 22 17:05:16 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] The B(C)S takes a hit ...
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bdee8aa9db11@[66.170.161.2]>
Message-ID: <200412222305.iBMN5DZE009648@gw.tssi.com>

Don't jump to too many conclusions about the imminent collapse of the BCS.
After all, they are signed contracts through I believe 2009 or 2010.  There
is however increased talk of a BCS selection committee being formed, similar
to the basketball tournament selection committee, that would replace all of
the polls and would be used to determine at least who would play in the BCS
championship game.  Conference bowl affiliations would probably be
maintained to help determine the balance of the BCS games.  I think we are
likely to see that in place by the end of the upcoming football season and
that will probably be sufficient to convince the Big 10 and Pac 10 to hang
around. 

Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On
Behalf Of SjT (Stephen J. Truog)
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:12 PM
To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
Subject: [NU Sports] The B(C)S takes a hit ...

Apparently the AP has asked that their poll no longer be used in the BCS
rankings starting in 2005!

That means that the computers (no comment) and these anonymous coaches
(i.e. SID junior intern assistants) who put Cal sixth or so will now
determine our B(C)S "title" games.

Another step toward dismantling this system - woohoo!:) The Rose Bowl is
talking half a step outside of the ring by dealing with ABC while the rest
go to Fox ... now we need the Big Ten or Pac 10 (or both) to withdraw and
the house of cards will collapse for sure.

As for that ASU hoops game last night -- ouch! The score does look a lot
uglier than most of the game was, but ASU is a pretty darn good team. And
they looked a lot like a Big Ten team in size and play, so that was
probably good to show us what we need to do before January.

GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 23 09:58:45 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 23 10:02:33 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/23
Message-ID: <000201c4e908$49b89420$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Christmas Eve, Eve Edition **

Lots of Basketball both Men and Women's, including a look ahead all the way to
the Big 10. Also Midlands' Wrestling preview and lots of Recruiting news,
including some big changes in the Big 10 - The Cats 
aren't the only team recruiting well. More "Town & Gown" issues come up in
Evanston too...

                                                                  All the News
that Fits We Link
                                                                  Your Daily
Index to News about
                                                             Northwestern
University Athletics, and more
Northwestern Announces 2005 Hall of Fame Class 

http://nusports.collegesports.com/genrel/122204aaa.html 


Kate Oleykowski Bernatowi, Colleen Senich Funk, Michael Funk and Barry Gardner &
WGN's Dave Eanet all honored..

Men's BASKETBALL

     Vukusic Pushes Wildcats Past Robert Morris, 72-58
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/122204aaa.html 
     + Wildcats win despite ugly effort
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041222nugamer,1,195241
8.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + No, NU didn't Thump Robert Morris - Not Even Close
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/334083.html 
     + Wildcats roll, relax, and then regroup
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu23.html 
     + Disappointing performance for victorious Cats
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38344141 

     Brandon Lee Carmody Would Really like to See Him in Pract...
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=334037&nid=1224631&fhn=1 

Commentary:

     Wildcats stumble in major road test
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-23-04-467398.
html 

At Least they're not Demons or Devils
Its Robert Morris University

     Comeback Bid Falls Short as Men's Basketball Falls at Northwestern ...
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60509&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7288&inws_seqno=6620&ihide_header=0 
     + Northwestern 72, Robert Morris 58
 
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13613089&BRD=2212&PAG=461&dept_id=4658
16&rfi=6 
     + Northwestern proves too much for Robert Morris
 
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/robertmorris/s_286
317.html 
     + Freshman Gibb seeing minutes for RMU
 
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/robertmorris/s_285
856.html 

Looking Ahead:

     Delaware State [12/27]
     Murray St. belts Hornets
 
http://www.newszap.com/articles/2004/12/22/dm/central_delaware/sports/dsnsp03.tx
t 

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]


Then the Big 10:

     Indiana 1/5
     Half-court shot deals Indiana 6th loss in row
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cage23.html 
     $ Hoosiers lose on half-court buzzer beater
      http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/htosports/stories.php?id=0 
     $ TV gets in way of much-needed win for IU
      http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/htosports/stories.php?id=2 
     + Long shot stuns Hoosiers
      http://www.indystar.com/articles/2/204266-7132-036.html 
     + Plavich's midcourt fling stuns IU 74-73
 
http://www.courier-journal.com/cjsports/news2004/12/23/C1-iu-hoos1223-9438.html 
     + Half-court heartbreak
      http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/sports/10484015.htm 
     + Reeling Hoosiers regrouping
      http://www.tribstar.com/articles/2004/12/22/sports/sports03.txt 

     at Michigan State 1/8
     Bruins have no Magic
 
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/basketball/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/110372
6400281790.xml 
     + Spartans able to keep UCLA out
 
http://www.greenandwhite.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041222/GW0201/41222035
1/1023/GW 

     at Michigan 1/12
     Men's Basketball Drops Tightly Contested Affair at UCLA
      http://www.mgoblue.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=16568 
     + Another bump in the road 
 
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/aanews/basketball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/11034
54704326292.xml 

     Illinois 1/15
     Illini not bragging after win
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041222illinigamer,1,50
39643.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Illini want Final Four talk to end
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041222illinibits,1,114
1957.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + This win not so easy for Illini
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38344118 
     + Time to Brag, Illinois Wins Border War 70-64
      http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content.asp?ID=2191 

Women's BASKETBALL

     'Cats Tame Tigers; Finish Third at San Juan Shootout
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/122204aab.html 

     and from Towson's side...
     Day Five of the San Juan...Northwestern
      http://www.towsontigers.com/sports/wbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=8926 
     + Tigers Finish Fourth At San Juan Shoot Out
      http://www.towsontigers.com/sports/wbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=8925 

FOOTBALL

     Panel may be solution for BCS
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041222bcs,1,5363556.st
ory?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + BCS: We're here to stay
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-bcs23.html 
     + BCS won't be destroyed by AP's decision to pull poll 
      http://www.foxsports.com/story/3270724 

     Northwestern great Sarkisian dead at 82
 
http://www.post-trib.com/cgi-bin/pto-story/sports/z1/12-23-04_z1_spor_11.html 
     + GoUPurple - Sarkasian was one of  the greatest players in NU history.
      http://hailtopurple.com/cats4l21a.html 

     GoUPurple: 2004 Season Review
      http://hailtopurple.com/features/2004.html 
     + The winner of the 2004 Trivia contest has posted!
      http://hailtopurple.com/features/triv4l21.html 

     Would the Cats have won in Hawaii?
     Big Ten asks NCAA to approve instant replay for all conferences
 
http://www.mlive.com/sportsflash/college/index.ssf?/base/sports-10/1103815446372
60.xml&storylist=bigten 

RECRUITING

     Patrick Kuntz Who will get his verbal?
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=334044&nid=1201834&fhn=1 
     Mike Mucha All-State RB/DB weighs options
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=334054&nid=1201734&fhn=1 
     Christopher Douglas Boiling It Down
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=334106&nid=1179443&fhn=1 

     Willie Walker $ 2006 Focus: Willie Walker
      http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=2&c=334078 

     JoPa is putting together another doozie of a class
     Friends adding to PSU's recruiting class
 
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/sports/11037973233230
00.xml 

     MSU Loses their Recruiting Coordinator
     Spartans lose aide to Illini
 
http://www.greenandwhite.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041223/GW01/412230344/
1023/GW 

WRESTLING

     Stars come out at Midlands
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-23-04-467003.
html 

Miscellany

     Town & Gown issues are back ... 
     Evanston examines contracts with NU
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/north/chi-0412230146dec23,1,4030919.sto
ry?coll=chi-newslocalnorth-hed 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec 22 09:00:02 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 23 14:31:57 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/22
Message-ID: <004501c4e836$eb498b00$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Christmas Eve, Eve, Eve Edition **

Football coach Randy Walker must have been a good boy - He's been getting lots
of presents 
in Recruiting, including another commit yesterday. Men's Basketball is back home
for another 
game. The Women are fighting thru some illness down in the islands and a little
Miscellany 
including a Hoosier Daddy update...

                       All the News that Fits We Link
                       Your Daily Index to News about
                  Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Alex Sarkasian: A fond farewell to an NU captain 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041221colnusarkisian,1
,7188646.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 



Men's BASKETBALL

     No Pregame info up this morning 
     The Purple Reign Pregame Intel Report is up on the front page...
     http://northwestern.scout.com/2/333836.html

At Least they're not Demons or Devils
Its Robert Morris University

     Men's Basketball Returns to Action Wednesday Night
 
http://www.rmu.edu/OnTheMove/wpnews.full_story?icalledby=wpnews&ipage=60509&it=&
iattr=&ivisitor=&inwc_seqno=7281&inws_seqno=6611&ihide_header=0 
     + RMU trying to rebound from early season woes
      http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04357/430590.stm 
     + Colonials miss chance at victory
      http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04347/425808.stm 
     + Colonials-Wildcats scouting report
 
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/robertmorris/s_285892.
html 
     + Lee comes up big for Robert Morris
      http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04346/425281.stm 

Looking Ahead:

     Delaware State [12/27]

     Texas-Pan American [12/31] 

Then the Big 10:

     Indiana 1/5
     Hoosiers try to stop four game skid
      http://indiana.scout.com/2/332250.html 
     + IU Circling the wagons
 
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2004/12/22/sports.1222-HT-B1_PJB03766.s
to 
     + 'CAT'ASTROPHIC
      http://idsnews.com/story.php?id=26809 

     at Michigan State 1/8
     Michigan St. uses pair of big runs to put away UCLA 
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38343115 

     at Michigan 1/12
     Recap: Notre Dame 60, Michigan 61
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/recaps/2004/12/04/10949_rec
ap.html 

     Illinois 1/15
     Weber very wary of young Missouri
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041221illinibits,1,421
060.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + What, me wary? Yes, says Illini's Weber
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ill22.html 
     + Illinois won't brag early
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38343100 

Women's BASKETBALL

     49ers Outrun Ailing Wildcats, 72-64
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/122104aab.html 
     Next are the Towson Tigers:
     Day 4...Florida State
      http://www.towsontigers.com/sports/wbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=8924 
     + Towson falls to ACC-Leading Florida State 67-56
      http://www.towsontigers.com/sports/wbball/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=8923 


FOOTBALL

     See Below

RECRUITING

     Another Commit for the Cats
     Rasheed Ward Pulls the trigger!
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333550&nid=1174181&fhn=1 

     R.C. Lagomarsino A Different Type Of Teenager
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333589&nid=1270896&fhn=1 
     Pat Brown Sets a couple January visits
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333554&nid=1446321&fhn=1 
     Eddie Adamski Gives verbal commitment
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333559&nid=1188599&fhn=1 

     Davis was high on Coach Colby's list
     Steve Davis MO DE Commits to Big Ten
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333645&nid=1341235&fhn=1 
     Craig Sheppard One visit set
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=333493&nid=1350919&fhn=1 

Miscellany

     AP to BCS: Don't use our poll
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-bcs22.html 

     Iowa teaches Knight lesson
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-iowa22.html 
     + Alford, Iowa take Texas Tech to school 
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38343101 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
+=+=+ All the News That Fits - We Link=+=+=+ 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Other NU Sports Links: 
* Northwestern Wildcats - Purple Reign 
[Provider of this Link Service-Part of TheInsiders.com] 
 http://purplewildcats.com 
* The Northwestern Sports List Archive 
http://www.tssi.com/nwu-sports.html 
* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
http://insiders1.ezboard.com/bnorthwestern 
* Official NU Athletic Site: 
http://nusports.fansonly.com/ 
* Daily Northwestern: 
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Wed Dec 22 06:12:40 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 24 00:19:18 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412212357260.27884@localhost>
Message-ID: <004401c4e81f$88bc79a0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

If it is, its something that Carmody has hinted about in the past....

Last year he responded to a question either from the WGN guys, or on the
teleconference about the offense allowing fast breaks and more transition stuff.

I know this year he said something about an alley-oop play being another version
of the back door cut. Personally, I think we'll start to see more aggressive
penetration and more transition stuff once we get used to running with the
present personnel. IMHO of course.

After ASU, BC's comments indicated that only T.J.Parker is able to penetrate
zones right now. He expects more guys to be able to do that, but its just not
happening.

We'll see tonight.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
Happy New Year
Great Signing Day
Good Spring Practice
Outstanding Camp Kenosha
Big 10 Championship
Bowl Win

To all!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan 
> Michael Hawkins
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:59 AM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
> 
> 
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
> > As for that ASU hoops game last night -- ouch! The score 
> does look a 
> > lot uglier than most of the game was, but ASU is a pretty darn good 
> > team. And they looked a lot like a Big Ten team in size and 
> play, so 
> > that was probably good to show us what we need to do before January.
> 
> Does anyone here know why BC apparently gave the go-ahead for 
> the team to play a pretty different style of offense?  It was 
> kinda neat to see them go for fast breaks more aggressively - 
> does anyone know if this is a portent of the future or just 
> an experiment?
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Fri Dec 24 08:18:00 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Fri Dec 24 08:19:17 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
In-Reply-To: <004401c4e81f$88bc79a0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>
Message-ID: <200412241419.iBOEJ8ZE011513@gw.tssi.com>

Even last year he encouraged more fast breaks and running out of the
offense.  It's a question of personnel.  With good rebounding and outlet
passing, Parker and Hachad can run.  In fact, that's about the only way
Hachad will get his points as his shooting has not been anything to write
home about.  BC will let this team run, but within it's a controlled running
game within the style of the offense.

Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On
Behalf Of Roy S. Lamberton
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 7:13 AM
To: 'Jonathan Michael Hawkins'; nwu-sports@tssi.com
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] NU v ASU

If it is, its something that Carmody has hinted about in the past....

Last year he responded to a question either from the WGN guys, or on the
teleconference about the offense allowing fast breaks and more transition
stuff.

I know this year he said something about an alley-oop play being another
version
of the back door cut. Personally, I think we'll start to see more aggressive
penetration and more transition stuff once we get used to running with the
present personnel. IMHO of course.

After ASU, BC's comments indicated that only T.J.Parker is able to penetrate
zones right now. He expects more guys to be able to do that, but its just
not
happening.

We'll see tonight.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
Happy New Year
Great Signing Day
Good Spring Practice
Outstanding Camp Kenosha
Big 10 Championship
Bowl Win

To all!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan 
> Michael Hawkins
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:59 AM
> To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
> 
> 
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
> > As for that ASU hoops game last night -- ouch! The score 
> does look a 
> > lot uglier than most of the game was, but ASU is a pretty darn good 
> > team. And they looked a lot like a Big Ten team in size and 
> play, so 
> > that was probably good to show us what we need to do before January.
> 
> Does anyone here know why BC apparently gave the go-ahead for 
> the team to play a pretty different style of offense?  It was 
> kinda neat to see them go for fast breaks more aggressively - 
> does anyone know if this is a portent of the future or just 
> an experiment?
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 


_______________________________________________
nwu-sports site list
nwu-sports@tssi.com
http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 24 09:31:41 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 24 09:35:23 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
In-Reply-To: <20041224141822.KXDV1758.oe-mp1.bizmailsrvcs.net@sccimhc92.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c4e9cd$ab642110$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

AND

IMHO - it's the right way to run given our present talent.

We saw flashes of it during the game Wednesday - maybe, just maybe we'll see
that concentration for a full game next week?

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
Happy New Year
Great Signing Day
Good Spring Practice
Outstanding Camp Kenosha
Big 10 Championship
Bowl Win

To all!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark S. Ament [mailto:prplehaze@insightbb.com] 
> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 9:18 AM
> To: 'Roy S. Lamberton'; 'Jonathan Michael Hawkins'; 
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
> 
> 
> Even last year he encouraged more fast breaks and running out 
> of the offense.  It's a question of personnel.  With good 
> rebounding and outlet passing, Parker and Hachad can run.  In 
> fact, that's about the only way Hachad will get his points as 
> his shooting has not been anything to write home about.  BC 
> will let this team run, but within it's a controlled running 
> game within the style of the offense.
> 
> Mark
> Mark S. Ament
> prplehaze@insightbb.com
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Roy S. Lamberton
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 7:13 AM
> To: 'Jonathan Michael Hawkins'; nwu-sports@tssi.com
> Subject: RE: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
> 
> If it is, its something that Carmody has hinted about in the past....
> 
> Last year he responded to a question either from the WGN 
> guys, or on the teleconference about the offense allowing 
> fast breaks and more transition stuff.
> 
> I know this year he said something about an alley-oop play 
> being another version of the back door cut. Personally, I 
> think we'll start to see more aggressive penetration and more 
> transition stuff once we get used to running with the present 
> personnel. IMHO of course.
> 
> After ASU, BC's comments indicated that only T.J.Parker is 
> able to penetrate zones right now. He expects more guys to be 
> able to do that, but its just not happening.
> 
> We'll see tonight.
> 
> Go Cats
> 
> rsl
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
> Computer Applications & Support Associates
> and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
> The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
> (http://www.purplewildcats.com)
> AIM Handle: CoachRoy74
> 
> =========================================
> Merry Christmas
> Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
> Happy New Year
> Great Signing Day
> Good Spring Practice
> Outstanding Camp Kenosha
> Big 10 Championship
> Bowl Win
> 
> To all!
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com
> > [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan 
> > Michael Hawkins
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:59 AM
> > To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
> > Subject: [NU Sports] NU v ASU
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, SjT (Stephen J. Truog) wrote:
> > > As for that ASU hoops game last night -- ouch! The score
> > does look a
> > > lot uglier than most of the game was, but ASU is a pretty 
> darn good
> > > team. And they looked a lot like a Big Ten team in size and 
> > play, so
> > > that was probably good to show us what we need to do 
> before January.
> > 
> > Does anyone here know why BC apparently gave the go-ahead for
> > the team to play a pretty different style of offense?  It was 
> > kinda neat to see them go for fast breaks more aggressively - 
> > does anyone know if this is a portent of the future or just 
> > an experiment?
> > 
> > Jonathan
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nwu-sports site list
> > nwu-sports@tssi.com
> > http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 
> 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Mon Dec 27 12:56:09 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Mon Dec 27 13:02:10 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] I realize there's a big NFL Game on tonight
Message-ID: <002f01c4ec45$bbc0a680$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

But we'll be chatting during the game with DSU

Go Cats

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
Happy New Year
Great Signing Day
Good Spring Practice
Outstanding Camp Kenosha
Big 10 Championship
Bowl Win

To all!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Tue Dec 28 08:00:44 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Tue Dec 28 08:06:40 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/28
Message-ID: <003001c4ece5$a1d91180$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Tuesday Early Edition **

Well, a win is a win for Basketball, a look ahead to the Women's Basketball next
opponent. 
There are some recruiting updates, and The Midlands Wrestling. Alumni too.

                       All the News that Fits We Link
                       Your Daily Index to News about
                  Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Wildcats Drop Delaware State, 50-43
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/122704aaa.html 
     + Wildcats may face lineup shuffle
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041227nugamer,1,457386
3.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Here We Go Again: NU 50 DSU 43
      http://northwestern.scout.com/2/335130.html 
     + NU win leaves Carmody at a loss
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-nu28.html 

     From Delaware State [12/27]
     Hornets hang tough again: Men fall to Northwestern
 
http://www.newszap.com/articles/2004/12/27/dm/central_delaware/sports/dsnspt01.t
xt 

Looking Ahead:

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]

Then the Big 10:

     Indiana 1/5
     they play Ball State tonight
      http://iuhoosiers.com/mensbasketball/news/04-05/mbk12-27-04.html 
     + Notes
 
http://iuhoosiers.com/mensbasketball/news/04-05/images/Indiana%20notes-BSU.pdf 
     + As White finds comfort zone, scoring soars
      http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/205285-4027-036.html 

     at Michigan State 1/8
     Spartan basketball players show they've grown
 
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1103726400281790.
xml 

     at Michigan 1/12
     They get Del State next...

     Illinois 1/15
     Orange crush? Make it a blush
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041227illinigamer,1,97
1815.story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + No. 1 Illini struggle
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=3834982 
     + Self-deprecating foe no joke for Illini
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-ill28.html 

     Wisconsin extends home streak
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3834974 

     Billings leaves Ohio State
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3834989 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Next game is Thursday against Minnesota
     Golden Gophers Defeat Drake, 74-57
 
http://www.gophersports.com/sportsNews/press_release.asp?news_id=9966&sport_id=w
basket 
     + Gophers offense in transition
      http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/5151848.html 
     + A look at the Gophers women's basketball offense
      http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/5151639.html 

FOOTBALL



RECRUITING

     Ramon Diaz: Redskins outlast Foxes to claim tourney crown
 
http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16&SubSectionID=72&ArticleID
=12561&TM=17694.25 
     Craig Moore: Team advances in Joe Silver Holiday Tourney 
 
http://www.nj.com/hssports/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-7/1104224834234181.xml 

WRESTLING

     No. 23 Wildcats Set for 42nd Midlands
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/122704aad.html 
     + Ohio State Travels to 42nd Midlands Championships
 
http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/122704aaa.ht
ml 

Miscellany

     Northwestern dean survives tidal wave
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/27local.html 

ALUMNI

     Kevin Bentley: 16th game this weekend
      http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/3785.0.html 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
The "NU Sports News Digest" is a Daily Link
 Service originally started by Frank Loomis
 and sent to members of the NU Sports List
 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
 Northwestern University web site of the
 Scout.com Network. 

The Digest is in no way connected with Northwestern University 
and any opinions expressed herein are those of the publisher 
and are not those of Northwestern University, its staff, or 

administration. 
All copyrights are those of the holders. 
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* Purple Reign Discussion Board 
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* Official NU Athletic Site: 
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* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
http://www.wnur.org 
* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From bondscoop at megapathdsl.net  Tue Dec 28 08:32:19 2004
From: bondscoop at megapathdsl.net (Michael Jackson)
Date: Tue Dec 28 08:35:52 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU-Delaware State
Message-ID: <004901c4ecea$0c8965d0$0302a8c0@Mike>

It has been a long time since the Welsh-Ryan arena crowd has booed the
Cats.  It happened last night late in the second half of the Cats game
with Delaware State.  Vedran had just turned over the ball for the third
time in four or five trips down the floor.  He sleep-walked his way
through the game just missing a rare triple-double by one rebound and
two turnovers.  The rest of the Cats were not immune either getting 22
turnovers to only 11 for DS.  The Cats had more assists, 17 to 11, and
more rebounds, 37 to 19, but had less field goal attempts, 39 to 56.
Too many times they turned the ball over without even getting a shot.
It is a good thing DS couldn't shoot the ball well in the first half.
With a little less than 6 minutes left in the first half the Wildcats
had an 18 to 1 lead.  Early in the second half that lead dwindled down
to two as the Cats played down to another opponent.  The only player who
played a solid and complete game was Davor.  He energized the team
whenever he came into the game.  Vedran shot well, moved well without
the ball and rebounded well but looked like he was passing to the other
team rather than to a teammate.  Mohammed scored from long-range and
from drives but still lacks that spark he had last year.  He is very
careless with the ball.  TJ ran the offense well but still turned over
the ball to often.  Michael was a force inside but forced it too often
and was second in turnovers for the team.  He also had too many bricks
at the foul line forcing BC to sub for him down the stretch.  He only
played at the defensive end limiting his chance to get to the foul line.
Tim Doyle is still looking for his shot.  He also struggles when he has
the ball in traffic.  There you go.  It was a team effort.  They all
deserved to be booed by the home crowd.  It will be a long Big 10 season
if the Cats can't stop their butter-finger ways.  I don't ever remember
seeing Bill Carmody as angry as he was last night.  I wouldn't want to
be at practice for the next few days.  
From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Tue Dec 28 21:42:35 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Wed Dec 29 04:00:02 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
Message-ID: <l03130300bdf784292086@[66.170.160.5]>

Was just on the Michigan atheltic site checking the schedule for another
sport and noticed the big flashing banner on the front page: "Limited
Number of Rose Bowl Tickets Still Available" along with a graphic with the
Michigan and Texas logos with the Rose Bowl insignia and the somewhat
amusing tagline "be part of the tradition."

Are they really having problems selling tickets for Pasadena this close to
January 1? Are the other BCS bowls in as much trouble for selling tickets?
Will we see empty seats in Pasadena yet again on New Year's Day? Shame.

Some high-scoring games, but a fairly blah bowl season so far. Hopefully
that improves.

Go Big Ten!
GO CATS!!!
- SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From MHRJGScott at aol.com  Wed Dec 29 06:21:26 2004
From: MHRJGScott at aol.com (MHRJGScott@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec 29 06:25:30 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
Message-ID: <5b.600d8fec.2f03fb46@aol.com>

I don't know about the rose bowl but the capital 1 bowl is sold out and  Iowa 
fans are all over Orlando, mostly talking about how they get no respect vs  
Michigan. Yuch!!
From NEONRye at aol.com  Wed Dec 29 09:39:39 2004
From: NEONRye at aol.com (NEONRye@aol.com)
Date: Wed Dec 29 09:41:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
Message-ID: <79.3bc2e2de.2f0429bb@aol.com>

I hope they have plenty of empty seats--that could have--and should 
have--been filled by loyal, Pasadena-starved fans of the Cal Bears.  What a joke this 
game is.  

Paul Levinson
From pminerva at horizonconsultingservices.net  Wed Dec 29 10:05:29 2004
From: pminerva at horizonconsultingservices.net (Paul Minerva)
Date: Wed Dec 29 10:06:38 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bdf784292086@[66.170.160.5]>
Message-ID: <BAY23-F301E57ABC85D3C668EE48FC49B0@phx.gbl>

Frankly, in 1995 there were plenty of tickets available for the Rose Bowl.






>From: "SjT (Stephen J. Truog)" <sjtruog@jorsm.com>
>To: nwu-sports@tssi.com
>Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:42:35 -0600
>
>Was just on the Michigan atheltic site checking the schedule for another
>sport and noticed the big flashing banner on the front page: "Limited
>Number of Rose Bowl Tickets Still Available" along with a graphic with the
>Michigan and Texas logos with the Rose Bowl insignia and the somewhat
>amusing tagline "be part of the tradition."
>
>Are they really having problems selling tickets for Pasadena this close to
>January 1? Are the other BCS bowls in as much trouble for selling tickets?
>Will we see empty seats in Pasadena yet again on New Year's Day? Shame.
>
>Some high-scoring games, but a fairly blah bowl season so far. Hopefully
>that improves.
>
>Go Big Ten!
>GO CATS!!!
>- SjT
>
>
>888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
>8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
>88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
>88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
>88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
>88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
>888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
>8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
>====================================================
>Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Wed Dec 29 10:18:13 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Wed Dec 29 10:18:15 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412291618.iBTGIDeQ004127@romaine.tssi.com>

> Are they really having problems selling tickets for Pasadena this close to
> January 1? Are the other BCS bowls in as much trouble for selling tickets?
> Will we see empty seats in Pasadena yet again on New Year's Day? Shame.

Try finding out how much they're charging for the tickets, that's not
apparently part of the online information.  As best I can determine, the
list price appears to be $195.

According to the Rose Bowl's own site, the game is a 'contractual sellout', 
which I guess means that the teams are stuck with their tickets whether 
they sell them or not.

There's nothing specific about Rose Bowl ticket availability on the 
UT website, and if you try their ticket office those tickets aren't listed,
so it doesn't appear they're stressed about selling their required block.
(Unlike Michigan.)
--
Mike Nolan

From sundevilpeg at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 29 11:45:38 2004
From: sundevilpeg at hotmail.com (peg wolfe)
Date: Wed Dec 29 11:46:43 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
In-Reply-To: <79.3bc2e2de.2f0429bb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY17-F8D3E8962528E29CE90D04A79B0@phx.gbl>

I couldn't agree more.  Heck, I'm not even going to bother watching this 
game, myself - I'm no UM fan, and the presence of UT is just so wrong on so 
many levels.

- peg wolfe, aka sundevilpeg

>From: NEONRye@aol.com
>To: sjtruog@jorsm.com, nwu-sports@tssi.com
>Subject: Re: [NU Sports] Hmm ...
>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:39:39 EST
>
>I hope they have plenty of empty seats--that could have--and should
>have--been filled by loyal, Pasadena-starved fans of the Cal Bears.  What a 
>joke this
>game is.
>
>Paul Levinson
>_______________________________________________
>nwu-sports site list
>nwu-sports@tssi.com
>http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Wed Dec 29 12:26:18 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Wed Dec 29 12:26:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Hmm ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412291826.iBTIQIG0004784@romaine.tssi.com>

> I couldn't agree more.  Heck, I'm not even going to bother watching this 
> game, myself - I'm no UM fan, and the presence of UT is just so wrong on so 
> many levels.

It'll depend on whether the other games are more interesting, but I'm
a college football fan and Bowl Week is my favorite week of the season.
Even though the matches didn't look all that exciting on paper, the games
so far have been better than most of the NFL games in recent weeks.
(New England and Philly will phone this weekend's games in.)

Fresno State has to be the luckiest darned team in college football.

Any day Oregon State defeats Notre Dame again and Iowa State wins a bowl
game is worth marking on the calendar in red letters.  However, if I had
heard that meaningless stat about how many teams have won a bowl game
since the Irish last did ONE MORE TIME, I think I'd have thrown up!

Today we get to see if UTEP can keep up with the Buffs and then we get to 
see the battle of the OSUs.  You gotta love it!

I'm kind of hoping that the Horns get sent back to Texas with their
tails dragging.  Bevo-burgers!
--
Mike Nolan

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec 29 22:41:56 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Wed Dec 29 22:47:03 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowls ...
Message-ID: <l03130301bdf92b868375@[66.170.161.11]>

Picked up a bit today with the Big Ten and our ex-coach in action ... maybe
not a high-scoring OT game like the Boise Bowl, but more interest. Too bad
UTEP fell short ... but that Palmer kid sure looks like his brother when he
drops back and has the uniform on. Not as good, but getting there. And
Barnett sure doesn't look like the rising star in purple on the sidelines
he was a decade ago -- this season really wore on Gary and it shows.

As for the Alamo Bowl, an impressive show by OSU, well *the* OSU and a good
start to the Big Ten's season. Ginn is gonna be a pain in the neck for the
rest of the league ... but I don't think he'll be there through senior year
at least. Still, with all they have back, OSU's gotta be the early favorite
for the league (provided they're eligible for postseason play:) ) and that
September visit to the Shoe from Texas should be a dandy.

Speaking of Texas ... good news for Oklahoma fans! Texas just signed Mack
Brown for another 10 years!:)

I don't expect Minnesota or Wisconsin to do much, but Purdue should win
with Walter out and leave our conference bowl fate up to co-champs Iowa and
Michigan - each with a pretty tall assignment with LSU's D and Texas' O.

Go Big Ten!
GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From thehaze at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 29 23:16:47 2004
From: thehaze at earthlink.net (Jim Bendat)
Date: Wed Dec 29 23:20:49 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
Message-ID: <41D38F3F.1050308@earthlink.net>

Three teams I follow closely -- Northwestern, Notre Dame and UCLA -- all 
finished 6-6 this season.  I can't help but wonder:  what's better (or 
more humiliating) -- finishing 6-6 as we did, without going to a bowl; 
OR finishing 6-6 after going to a minor bowl and getting embarrassed by 
Wyoming or Oregon State?  I know Notre Dame and UCLA fans are not too 
happy right now, feeling as if it would have been better not to have 
gone at all.

And speaking of UCLA, some of the Bruins' similarities with Northwestern 
are worth noting:  both finished 6-7 in 2003 and 6-6 in 2004.  Both have 
QBs who began starting as freshmen (Brett Basanez and Drew Olson) and 
who have been getting progressively better.  And both of these two QBs 
wear number 14.  Then again, maybe I should have left out this second 
paragraph!

Jim B.


From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Wed Dec 29 23:41:25 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Wed Dec 29 23:46:20 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
In-Reply-To: <41D38F3F.1050308@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <l0313030cbdf942bef85c@[66.170.161.11]>

>Three teams I follow closely -- Northwestern, Notre Dame and UCLA -- all

Please tell me you follow ND just to see them lose:) ... no problem with
UCLA, though, everyone needs a dream Rose Bowl opponent for NU.

>finished 6-6 this season.  I can't help but wonder:  what's better (or
>more humiliating) -- finishing 6-6 as we did, without going to a bowl;
>OR finishing 6-6 after going to a minor bowl and getting embarrassed by
>Wyoming or Oregon State?  I know Notre Dame and UCLA fans are not too

Well, we all know as fans that it sucks to lose at the end of a season ...
still, I think coaches would tell you they'd rather have the extra game and
especially the extra practice.

I dunno - I guess it depends on the program's perspective as well. For a
school will delusions of grandeur like Notre Dame, getting waxed in the
desert again by Oregon State is a big-time downer. For a school used to
going to January 1 bowls, playing midweek between Christmas and New Year's
may be more of a downer and they don't show up so the loss is a sour note
to end the season on. For other schools though, winning a mid-level bowl
can be a stepping stone for bigger bowls down the line and at least end a
season strong. Colorado's win in Houston was somewhat ho-hum, but had UTEP
won, I think it would have meant a lot more ... and their loss isn't all
that embarassing either as they lost to a team from a BCS league in a close
game to finish a surprising season.

As an NU fan, I don't care if it's the Weedwacker Bowl, I'd just like a WIN
in the postseason!:) Then we can get that darn monkey off the back and move
on.

>wear number 14.  Then again, maybe I should have left out this second
>paragraph!

I think this bowl season may lead the NCAA to readjust its bowl eligibility
policy ... the games just aren't all that exciting and there are a LOT of
empty stadiums. Not that I'm saying NU would bring a ton of fans, but these
extra MAC and CUSA teams aren't winning ... bringing fans ... or bringing
ratings, I suspect. Obviously the 6-6 exemption wouldn't help much (it'd
only really affect NU and 1-2 others this year), but maybe what Mike
mentioned about teams with winning league marks being eligible if the
conference has a tie-in spot? But either some of these smaller bowls are
gonna fold soon after not filling stadiums halfway, or the NCAA will find a
way to get bigger-name programs into the field of play.

On the flip side for fans, kudos to Okie State for bringing a large block
of orange to the Alamo Dome. OSU brought good fan support for a non-BCS
bowl as well - good job by both schools. I don't expect Minnesota or Purdue
to send large contingents to their bowls, and it sounds like Michigan's
having trouble. But Iowa always brings a horde of bumblebees ... and
Wisconsin will be interesting to watch. Cheeseheads usually travel well in
winter, but I suspect a lot of them were booking trips to California when
November started and Tampa may not have the same lure. Orlando they hadn't
been to, but Tampa they had recently.

Go Big Ten!
GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From nolan at romaine.tssi.com  Thu Dec 30 02:14:41 2004
From: nolan at romaine.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
Date: Thu Dec 30 02:14:43 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowls ... (fwd)
Message-ID: <200412300814.iBU8Eft6008473@romaine.tssi.com>

> Picked up a bit today with the Big Ten and our ex-coach in action ... maybe
> not a high-scoring OT game like the Boise Bowl, but more interest. Too bad
> UTEP fell short ... but that Palmer kid sure looks like his brother when he
> drops back and has the uniform on. Not as good, but getting there. And
> Barnett sure doesn't look like the rising star in purple on the sidelines
> he was a decade ago -- this season really wore on Gary and it shows.

I thought that game was one of the most ineptly officiated games I've
seen in years, but at least the bad calls seemed evenly distributed.

Did I miss the ceremony marking the canonization of Gary Barnett by 
ESPN this fall?

Okie State was outclassed and outgunned probably right from the coin 
toss.   Not the best day of the bowl season.
--
Mike Nolan

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 30 06:18:31 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 30 06:24:22 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Bowls ... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <200412300814.iBU8Eft6008473@romaine.tssi.com>
Message-ID: <005b01c4ee69$ad9a64d0$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

You have to remember that one could consider that "St" Gary did miraculously
rise from among the dead last fall.

Go Cats

rsl

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
Happy New Year
Great Signing Day
Good Spring Practice
Outstanding Camp Kenosha
Big 10 Championship
Bowl Win

To all!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com 
> [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On Behalf Of Mike Nolan
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 3:15 AM
> To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
> Subject: [NU Sports] Bowls ... (fwd)
> 
> 
> > Picked up a bit today with the Big Ten and our ex-coach in 
> action ... 
> > maybe not a high-scoring OT game like the Boise Bowl, but more 
> > interest. Too bad UTEP fell short ... but that Palmer kid 
> sure looks 
> > like his brother when he drops back and has the uniform on. Not as 
> > good, but getting there. And Barnett sure doesn't look like 
> the rising 
> > star in purple on the sidelines he was a decade ago -- this season 
> > really wore on Gary and it shows.
> 
> I thought that game was one of the most ineptly officiated 
> games I've seen in years, but at least the bad calls seemed 
> evenly distributed.
> 
> Did I miss the ceremony marking the canonization of Gary Barnett by 
> ESPN this fall?
> 
> Okie State was outclassed and outgunned probably right from the coin 
> toss.   Not the best day of the bowl season.
> --
> Mike Nolan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nwu-sports site list
> nwu-sports@tssi.com 
> http://romaine.tssi.com/mailman/listinfo/nwu-sports
> 

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Thu Dec 30 07:33:49 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Thu Dec 30 07:39:37 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] NU Sports News Digest 12/30
Message-ID: <005c01c4ee74$3308d390$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

www.PurpleWildcats.com
for Purple Reign
& the NU Sports List

** Thursday Early Edition **

Its Women's Basketball in the spotlight tonight as the Lady Court Cats open
their Big 10 
Season. There are a few Men's stories too. The Midlands tops the Wrestling
coverage, 
Football memories to end the year, and the loss of another Alum...


                       All the News that Fits We Link
                       Your Daily Index to News about
                  Northwestern University Athletics, and more


Men's BASKETBALL

     Careless Cats turn cheers into jeers
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-30-04-471975.
html 

Looking Ahead:

     Texas-Pan American [12/31]

Then the Big 10:

     Indiana 1/5
     Game Notes vs. Oral Roberts
      http://iuhoosiers.com/mensbasketball/news/04-05/OralRobertsGameNotes.pdf 
     + Prepares for Oral Roberts
      http://iuhoosiers.com/mensbasketball/news/04-05/mbk12-28-04.html 

     at Michigan State 1/8
     Spartans Run Away With Win Against N.C. Asheville
      http://msuspartans.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/122904aac.html


     at Michigan 1/12
     Inside Play Helps Men's Basketball Top Delaware State
      http://www.mgoblue.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=16599 

     Illinois 1/15
     Still questions to be answered
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-herb30.html 
     + Cinch city?
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041229illini,1,662356.
story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + This time, Bearcats are chasing Illini
 
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-041228illini,1,203603.
story?coll=cs-college-headlines 
     + Weber wants Illini to kick the habit
      http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=3835188 

     Wisconsin keeps Alabama offense in check
      http://www.suntimes.com/output/campus/cst-spt-cage30.html 

Women's BASKETBALL

     Stutz shines in third place game
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-30-04-471979.
html 

     Lady Court Cats back in action tonight
     'Cats Open Big Ten Slate in Minnesota
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/122504aab.html 
     + Golden Gophers Open Big Ten Season Thursday Versus Northwestern
 
http://www.gophersports.com/sportsNews/press_release.asp?news_id=9969&sport_id=w
basket 
     + Gophers host Northwestern at 7 tonight
      http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/5160503.html 
     + Post-Whalen Gophers eager to face Big Ten
      http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/sports/10525642.htm 
     + Leslie Knight: Forming a Fan Club
 
http://www.gophersports.com/feature/feature_release.asp?news_id=420&sport_id=wba
sket 
     + Janel McCarville: Making her Mark
 
http://www.gophersports.com/feature/feature_release.asp?news_id=419&sport_id=wba
sket 
     + Janel McCarville: One of a kind
      http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/5160497.html 

     Big Ten preview
      http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/5160513.html 

FOOTBALL

      NU Alumni Associations' Pictures of Tailgates around the country
      http://www.alumni.northwestern.edu/tailgates/index.html 
     + Recap of Hawaii
      http://www.alumni.northwestern.edu/travel/hawaii_recap_04.html 
     Castillo named All-America
 
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/sports/current/ev/12-30-04-464375.
html 

RECRUITING

     Daryl Jones He Likes To Chuck The Ball
      http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=179&p=9&c=2&cid=335118&nid=1168788&fhn=1 

WRESTLING

     The first two days are over...
     + First Session Results of Midlands Championships
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/recaps/122904aac.html 
     + Session Two Results of Midlands Championships
      http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/recaps/122904aaf.html 

     Stories from around the country on the tourney
     Wrestling Sits in First at Midlands
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/stories/123004aac.html 
     + Iowa State Wrestlers in Second After First Day at Midlands ...
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/stories/122904aao.html 
     + Hawkeyes In Fifth
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/stories/122904aag.html 
     + Cleveland State In 15th After First Day At Midlands
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/stories/123004aab.html 
     + Virginia's Paul Bjorlo and Rocco Caponi Compete For UVa Wrestling ...
      http://www.collegesports.com/sports/m-wrestl/stories/122904aal.html 

Miscellany

     Tressel/Geiger see no evil/hear no evil
 
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1104316423494
61.xml 

ALUMNI

     NUAA Broadway Weekend in New York
      http://www.alumni.northwestern.edu/travel/bway/index.html 

     Jerry Orbach 'Law & Order' star dies at 69
      http://www.dailyherald.com/kane/main_story.asp?intID=3835139 
     + 'Law and Order' Star Jerry Orbach Dies
      http://npr.streamsage.com/google/programlist/feature.php?wfid=4249728 

+=+=+= Go Cats =+= Beat 'em All =+=+=+ 
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 and other subscribers by Roy Lamberton, NU
 Speech 74, publisher of Purple Reign, the
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* Official NU Athletic Site: 
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http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/ 
* WNUR Broadcast Sched: 
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* WNUR Via Real Audio 
 http://www.wnur.org/live.ram 
* WGN Broadcast: Games Live 
http://wgnradio.com/listen/liveWGN.ram 
* Other Fan Sites 
 Far East Wildcat: 
http://www.fareastwildcat.com/WebSeasons.htm 
 Hail To Purple 
http://hailtopurple.com/ 
 Stephen J. Truog 
http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog/spt/cats.html 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Roy S. Lamberton [rstetson@capps-assoc.com]  
Sp74 Go Cats - beat 'em all 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Thu Dec 30 08:30:52 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Thu Dec 30 08:31:51 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
In-Reply-To: <l0313030cbdf942bef85c@[66.170.161.11]>
Message-ID: <200412301431.iBUEVlZE032117@gw.tssi.com>

The Sun Bowl contract with the Big Ten is up after next year I believe and
there appears to be sentiment on both sides to end the relationship.  The
Sun Bowl would like to pair up with the Pac 10 as an opponent for the Big
XII and the Big Ten is finding El Paso a too distant and unappetizing fan
destination.  The Motor City Bowl has already begun lobbying to move up the
food chain and replace the Sun Bowl in the Big Ten hierarchy.    El Paso
could explain why Purdue, who usually travels well to bowls, didn't bring
many people.  

The bowl I'm looking forward to the most outside of the Orange is the
Liberty and not just because the other school I follow most closely,
Louisville, is in it.  What an offensive display that should be.  Two teams
averaging better than 50 points a game.  It should be a fun way to kick off
New Years Eve.  It is just too bad that UofL's coach had to selfishly decide
to troll for the LSU job and take the focus off his players.

Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 

On the flip side for fans, kudos to Okie State for bringing a large block
of orange to the Alamo Dome. OSU brought good fan support for a non-BCS
bowl as well - good job by both schools. I don't expect Minnesota or Purdue
to send large contingents to their bowls, and it sounds like Michigan's
having trouble. But Iowa always brings a horde of bumblebees ... and
Wisconsin will be interesting to watch. Cheeseheads usually travel well in
winter, but I suspect a lot of them were booking trips to California when
November started and Tampa may not have the same lure. Orlando they hadn't
been to, but Tampa they had recently.



From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Thu Dec 30 18:38:58 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (SjT (Stephen J. Truog))
Date: Thu Dec 30 18:44:02 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
In-Reply-To: <20041230143100.ED28515396@freebsd.egix.net>
References: <l0313030cbdf942bef85c@[66.170.161.11]>
Message-ID: <l03130302bdfa4eaa0b64@[66.170.160.84]>

>The Sun Bowl contract with the Big Ten is up after next year I believe and
>there appears to be sentiment on both sides to end the relationship.  The

It's probably a good thing for location (El Paso is stuck in the middle of
nowhere:) ) ... but sad to see a Big Ten/Pac 10 tie gone. That means we
won't face 'em outside of the Rose Bowl, and even that's been iffy lately.

Could we add another with Pac 10 ties? All those Holiday Bowl games on ESPN
classic this week had Michigan, Iowa, Penn State ... would be fun to get
back there (though I doubt the Big XII will give it up:) ).

>destination.  The Motor City Bowl has already begun lobbying to move up the
>food chain and replace the Sun Bowl in the Big Ten hierarchy.

Well, we have some great destinations in Florida and San Antonio is a great
place for a bowl game. I'd think Nashville would be a fun trip as well (too
bad we didn't get to try it out this year:( ) ... not sure if we'd want to
move the Motor City up over Music City, but could be.

I wonder where we would go for a seventh game ... if the Big XII moves in
on the Sun, would we swap with their lower tier bowls? Houston? Shreveport?

>The bowl I'm looking forward to the most outside of the Orange is the
>Liberty and not just because the other school I follow most closely,
>Louisville, is in it.  What an offensive display that should be.

No doubt - that's one of the few bowl games that managed to get a good
pairing this year. In fact, with the Peach Bowl following it (It's two
Florida teams - but a bitter rivalry and some good talent), you could
almost say that the Dec. 31 bowls are bigger than the Jan. 1 prime time
lineup.

Go Big Ten!
GO CATS!!!
-SjT


888b   8888 O  R  T  H  W  E  S  T  E  R 888b   8888
8888b  Y888 ============================ 8888b  Y888
88888b  Y88 *     Stephen J. Truog     * 88888b  Y88
88 Y88b  88 * --- sjtruog@jorsm.com -- * 88 Y88b  88
88  Y88b 88 * --- Wildcat Football --- * 88  Y88b 88
88b  Y88888 * -- Illinois ------ 21 -- * 88b  Y88888
888b  Y8888 * -- NORTHWESTERN -- 28 -- * 888b  Y8888
8888   Y888 * ------ CATS WIN!!! ----- * 8888   Y888
====================================================
Visit SjTonline at http://www.jorsm.com/~sjtruog


From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Thu Dec 30 21:45:25 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Thu Dec 30 21:46:28 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
In-Reply-To: <l03130302bdfa4eaa0b64@[66.170.160.84]>
Message-ID: <200412310346.iBV3kKZE010605@gw.tssi.com>

The seventh game is a good question .  The alliances will be up for grabs in
a number of bowls after this year and the year after as contracts roll out
and the effect of the ACC raid on the Big East is felt.  Houston tried hard
to become the fifth BCS game and sees itself as far more than a lower tier
bowl.  With Reliant Stadium and a lot of money to throw around, I can see
that bowl moving up the food chain considerably.  The only question will be
what conferences they decide to hitch up with.  Holiday would be great: I've
always thought San Diego was one of the great places to visit and  you're
right about needing a new Pac 10 match-up.

Bowl machinations over the next couple of months may get to be almost as
much fun to watch as the conference commissioners trying to figure out how
to replace the AP poll for next year's BCS standings.

Happy New Year to all
GO Cards   (sorry, I couldn't resist)

Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 

I wonder where we would go for a seventh game ... if the Big XII moves in
on the Sun, would we swap with their lower tier bowls? Houston? Shreveport?



From JHCCLARK at aol.com  Thu Dec 30 23:03:30 2004
From: JHCCLARK at aol.com (JHCCLARK@aol.com)
Date: Thu Dec 30 23:07:28 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
Message-ID: <1FEAA66B.0AD86779.006D6456@aol.com>

I've always wondered why the Big Ten didn't try to get the bowl game in Las Vegas, either against the Mountain West or the Pac 10.  I'd take that over Shreveport or El Paso any day -- the flights and hotels are cheaper,  the weather is better, and there is a lot more to do.  

The Big Ten could also try to snag the bowl game in Fort Lauderdale against the ACC or the Big East.

Isn't there another bowl game in New Orleans besides the Sugar?  Is there a bowl game in Tucson?

Try to engineer some places where people want to vacation with family that doesn't care about the bowl game, and the whole family will go and probably all end up at the game anyway.

And do NOT schedule another Big Ten/SEC game.  I'm getting tired of Wisconsin/Georgia and Ohio State/Tennessee every other year (it's getting boring really fast).  Try to get them against the ACC, Big East, Conference USA or the Mountain West -- conferences we don't play already.

my $.02

From rstetson at capps-assoc.com  Fri Dec 31 08:23:50 2004
From: rstetson at capps-assoc.com (Roy S. Lamberton)
Date: Fri Dec 31 08:29:43 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] Chat during the game
Message-ID: <000c01c4ef44$5a870830$0200a8c0@DAVIDXP>

I may be a little late, but I'll be there

Go Cats

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roy S. Lamberton - Senior Associate
Computer Applications & Support Associates
and Publisher of Purple Reign, 
The Scout.com Northwestern University Site
(http://www.purplewildcats.com)
AIM Handle: CoachRoy74

=========================================
Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah [Altho I think its over]
Happy New Year
Great Signing Day
Good Spring Practice
Outstanding Camp Kenosha
Big 10 Championship
Bowl Win

To all!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

From sjtruog at jorsm.com  Fri Dec 31 16:45:09 2004
From: sjtruog at jorsm.com (sjtruog@jorsm.com)
Date: Fri Dec 31 16:52:14 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
In-Reply-To: <1FEAA66B.0AD86779.006D6456@aol.com>
References: <1FEAA66B.0AD86779.006D6456@aol.com>
Message-ID: <49401.66.170.160.39.1104533109.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com>

> I've always wondered why the Big Ten didn't try to get the bowl game in
> Las Vegas, either against the Mountain West or the Pac 10.  I'd take that
> over Shreveport or El Paso any day -- the flights and hotels are cheaper,
> the weather is better, and there is a lot more to do.

I like that idea! I know Houston wants to move up, but really, would you
rather spend the holidays (or any time) in Houston or Vegas?:) Plus, we
could get the Pac 10-Big Ten game and it would definitely boost the Vegas
Bowl's standing.

> The Big Ten could also try to snag the bowl game in Fort Lauderdale
> against the ACC or the Big East.

I dunno there - it'll never be the Orange Bowl, whereas at least Houston
would be THE big bowl in the area that year (plus, Houston would at least
give us another Texas venue -- we already have two in Florida).

> Isn't there another bowl game in New Orleans besides the Sugar?  Is there
> a bowl game in Tucson?

The New Orleans bowl is unusually early (and for a league that keeps using
academics as an excuse for trivial matters, here it would actually apply)
-- and Tuscon's bowl became the Insight Bowl in Phoenix -- again, that'd
be in the shadow of the BCS bowl there.

> Try to engineer some places where people want to vacation with family that
> doesn't care about the bowl game, and the whole family will go and
> probably all end up at the game anyway.

Yeah - and we have good ties with Pasadena, Orlando, Tampa, San Antonio
and Nashville for nice destinations. Vegas -- although not so much for the
kids -- fits well with that, as would San Diego.

> And do NOT schedule another Big Ten/SEC game.  I'm getting tired of
> Wisconsin/Georgia and Ohio State/Tennessee every other year (it's getting

Agreed there. We have three Big Ten/SEC games -- all on their turf, btw.
It's good to match up what traditionally are the two strongest conferences
in the nation, but a fourth would be ugly.

> boring really fast).  Try to get them against the ACC, Big East,
> Conference USA or the Mountain West -- conferences we don't play already.

Dunno about that -- I'd like to see us try really hard to get another Pac
10 one if we lose the Sun Bowl. Other than the Pac 10, the Big XII is a
good rival -- but I could care less about the ACC or Big East.:) CUSA
perhaps?

Vegas baby!:)

GO CATS!!!
-SjT

PS - Nice win by Minnesota today for an unexpected W in the league column.
As for Purdue, they really should have beaten a battered-up ASU -- game
effort by the Sun Devils and a really mediocre finish to the year for the
Boilers. In those game-changing moment commercials for ABC/ESPN, that
Orton fumble against Wisconsin's gotta be the winner -- it turned a #5
ranking and a dream season into a disappointing Sun Bowl flop. Can it get
any more changing than that?

From prplehaze at insightbb.com  Fri Dec 31 21:08:30 2004
From: prplehaze at insightbb.com (Mark S. Ament)
Date: Fri Dec 31 21:09:39 2004
Subject: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons
In-Reply-To: <1FEAA66B.0AD86779.006D6456@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200501010309.j0139WZE029738@gw.tssi.com>

There is a another bowl game in New Orleans but the Big Ten wouldn't want
any part of it.  The host team is the champion of the Sun Belt and has
featured North Texas in each of its 4 or 5 years of existence.  

I don't know what happened to the bowl in Tucson  - it was moved to Phoenix
and is held earlier in the week before the Fiesta Bowl in Bank One rather
than in Tempe.  ND was in it this year so it has a current tie to the Big
East.  It would be a good bowl to investigate because the other spot is a
Pac-10 spot.

I couldn't agree more about the SEC.  I live in SEC country and the less I
see of them, the better.

Mark
Mark S. Ament
prplehaze@insightbb.com
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com [mailto:nwu-sports-bounces@tssi.com] On
Behalf Of JHCCLARK@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 12:04 AM
To: nwu-sports@romaine.tssi.com
Subject: RE: [NU Sports] 6-6 seasons

I've always wondered why the Big Ten didn't try to get the bowl game in Las
Vegas, either against the Mountain West or the Pac 10.  I'd take that over
Shreveport or El Paso any day -- the flights and hotels are cheaper,  the
weather is better, and there is a lot more to do.  

The Big Ten could also try to snag the bowl game in Fort Lauderdale against
the ACC or the Big East.

Isn't there another bowl game in New Orleans besides the Sugar?  Is there a
bowl game in Tucson?

Try to engineer some places where people want to vacation with family that
doesn't care about the bowl game, and the whole family will go and probably
all end up at the game anyway.

And do NOT schedule another Big Ten/SEC game.  I'm getting tired of
Wisconsin/Georgia and Ohio State/Tennessee every other year (it's getting
boring really fast).  Try to get them against the ACC, Big East, Conference
USA or the Mountain West -- conferences we don't play already.

my $.02

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