[Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

Sun Dec 20 19:34:07 CST 2009

I'm no expert, but 2 things to think about in deciding whether a 3 phase coupler/repeater could work:

>    The 3 phase coupler/repeaters time shift a received UPB signal + and - 120 degrees onto the other two phases....I think.   If it's a fixed time shift given 60 HZ, as opposed to sensing/using the zero crossing, then it may not work in your situation.  There's no time shift necessary for split phase, because although the phases are out 180 degrees from each other, they zero cross at the same time. 

>    UPB devices must be programmed to accept repeater signals.  Devices on a standard residential split phase system do not, so it may require temporarily reprogramming each device.

I may be all wet on the above, but would be interested in hearing that as well.

Doug
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Doug Ringler 
  To: 'Dudoussat, Scott A.' ; HAI-users at tssi.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

  If one wants to transmit UPB signals across a generator automatic transfer switch,  I presume one could use a 3-phase coupler/repeater attached to the two phases on the 200 amp service main service, and the third line to the one side (phase) of the generator service that controls the 120v (the one phase) service that feeds the devices that you want controlled.  Any thoughts that this is correct?

  With respect to generator variability in the 60Hz region (and light flickering), I presume this can be solved with a solid UPS system that has low frequency variability output (harmonic).  Again, any comments much appreciated!

  Many thanks!

  Doug
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Dan Barclay 
    To: 'Doug Ringler' ; 'Dudoussat, Scott A.' ; HAI-users at tssi.com 
    Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:00 PM
    Subject: RE: [Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

    Ah.  I had a relay put in on the *power company* side of my throwover switch.  I've got a 400 amp feed and I prefer to manually move it over and bring it back.  In storms, when there is physical damage to the house, I didn't want power coming on without permission.  I live on the Gulf Coast and have had trees through the roof.

    I can live with the power being out a while, or with trees through the roof.  I've had a fire before and one is quite enough, thanks! <g>

    That brings on the problem of not knowing when the power is back on!   So, a relay (and light) on that feed did the trick.

    Dan

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    From: Doug Ringler [mailto:douglas.ringler at verizon.net] 
    Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 7:02 AM
    To: Dan Barclay; 'Dudoussat, Scott A.'; HAI-users at tssi.com
    Subject: Re: [Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

    Dan,

    Yes, fixed with a simple relay tagged to a new zone on the panel.  The issue was to detect the momentary loss of AC to the panel until the generator kicks in.  I used to use the loss of AC to the panel in the OmniPro (which was instaneous), then after about 4 seconds or so, the detection of AC to the panel from the generator (with a line in the programming detecting loss of AC elsewhere in the house not tagged to the generator) as an output and zone to alarm notification that the generator was on.  Anyways, as you say, simple fix with a relay.

    Another issue:  The stand-by generator causes fluttering of lights controlled by HAI dimmers on UPB.  Other lights don't flicker.  I think the issue is the generator has some variability in the 60Hz range...so when I measure it, it can range from 60.5 to 59.6Hz while the power from the street is 60Hz right on the mark.  Guess I could fix with a whole house UPS that has tight Hz control.........Anyone else know of any easy fixes?

    Thanks.

    Doug

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Dan Barclay 

      To: 'Doug Ringler' ; 'Dudoussat, Scott A.' ; HAI-users at tssi.com 

      Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 5:16 PM

      Subject: RE: [Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

      Dunno why you would need a solenoid.  How about a cheap wall wart power supply.   Put the output onto one of the inputs.  Sorry, I don't remember the voltages required/allowed but they should be in the specs.  A small DC power supply should work fine I think.  If not, then a cheap relay attached to one would do it.

      Dan

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      From: hai-users-bounces at tssi.com [mailto:hai-users-bounces at tssi.com] On Behalf Of Doug Ringler
      Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 9:19 AM
      To: Doug Ringler; Dudoussat, Scott A.; HAI-users at tssi.com
      Subject: Re: [Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

      Clarification:  The Detection of AC Power Off for the log command to work still requires the AC Power to be off for at least 10 or 15 sec.  Is there a way to detect momentary AC Power Off without the delay?

      Thanks!

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Doug Ringler 

        To: Dudoussat, Scott A. ; HAI-users at tssi.com 

        Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 9:38 AM

        Subject: [Hai-users] AC Power Off Detection

        Running OmniProII ver 3.0 in this location.  I realize that for the communicator and log, the AC loss must be for at least 3 min.  But, in some lines of programming, I need to detect ACPower Off for any momentary amount.  However, testing it with:  When AC Power Off, then Log Power Out---will not work.  Am I missing something?  I could run a solenoid for this, but would rather not.

        Thanks

        Doug Ringler

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